FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
power of HB...Paul Shicks post (Fred M. Scheer)
Soft/RO Water; Color; Oxidation ("A.J deLange")
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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 14:15:55 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net (Fred M. Scheer)
Subject: power of HB...Paul Shicks post
HI All:
One just never underestimate the power
of Homebrewers.
As AJ demonstradet, not only is the
knowledge about the subject brewing there,
also the contribution to the art and science
and the practical knowledge is
there.You are right with your posting, Paul.
I as a Professional Brewer, altimes appreciated
the help from Homebrewers.
Especially from the AABG in MI. I had the
largest taste panel and help
when we operated Frankenmuth Brewery.
I hope that other brewers in MI
appreciate them as well.
Still this days, whenever one of the AABG
visits Nashville, TN, I get a report
on
the beers, food and service. AND,
I get some of the best Homebrewed Nectar
in the US for my enjoyment. What else
can you ask for?
Cheers,
Fred Scheer
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Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:23:48 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Soft/RO Water; Color; Oxidation
RE: softened water: it is soft (little or no Ca or Mg) but it is not any
lower in mineral content than the water that went into the softener.
Each milliequivalent of calcium removed, which weighs 20 mg, is replaced
by a milliequivalent of sodium which weighs 23 mg. Each mEq of magnesium
removed (weight 12.15) is replaced by a mEq of sodium. Bicarbonate,
chloride etc. all sail through unaffected. So by weight, in fact, the
total amount of dissolved minerals increases (though based on
equivalence the amount stays the same). Do not think of softened water
in the same terms as RO water.
I forgot to respond to the question about dilution of tap water with RO
water. In general, one can think of RO water as distilled water for
dilution calculations i.e. if sulfate is 60 mg/L in tap water and it is
diluted 1+2 with RO water (1 part tap water to 2 parts RO water) the
sulfate content will be about 20 mg/L. I use "about" because RO does not
completely remove ions. It may be 98% effective against sulfate, for
example, which means that 1.2 mg/L would make it through the RO unit
giving a total concentration of (2*1.2 + 60)/3 = 20.8 mg/L which is
certainly close to 20. Alkalinity may be off by a bit more than the
other elements for two reasons: first, RO units are typically only about
95% effective against bicarbonate which is responsible for virtually all
observed alkalinity. Second, there may be a pH shift necessary to
maintain electrical neutrality which also throws things off a bit. For
example, if 1 part pH 8.00 water at alkalinity 200 with 130 ppm as
CaCO3 calcium and magnesium hardnesses with 60 ppm sulfate is blended
with 2 parts distilled water there will be a pH shift to 8.02 and the
alkalinity will be 68.3 rather than 200/3 = 66.7. Again, a relatively
small error.
For Chad: Remember that guys like me are often referred to as Daltonians
after another color blind guy who was also much intrigued by color.
For Paul: The MCAB presentation was called "Beer Color Re-examined" but
it did propose a pseudo SRM + 3 parameters as a way of describing color
(good memory!). It also stated that beer does not follow Beer's law.
Not true, though widely thought to be the case among home brewers in
those days. The big deal since then is the use of the true SRM (rather
than pseudo SRM derived from a pricipal component) and some small number
of principal components.
I also miss the high quality tech talks from MCAB (and BT). There really
isn't a forum for that kind of discussion among homebrewers...except
HBD! In case it didn't come across in previous posts late me state very
clearly that this work never would have happened had it not been for
HBD. Responses to questions and comments really force one to clarify his
thinking. This is equally so for the supportive comments as the ones
that vigorously assured me that I was all wet.
Finally oxidation state of beer is really not all that difficult to
measure and used to be considered quite important (see DeClerck). I've
often suspected that the industry quit doing rH measurements because of
the difficulties with dyes etc. and that it may now be time to have
another look. rH (ORP) is now measured almost as easily as pH (electrode
must be calibrated with a substance of known oxidation state and pH is
required to complete the cal). It is, of course, critical that the
sample be protected from exposure to the air but a closed sampling
chamber into which pH and ORP electrodes (or a combination electrode)
can be inserted and which can be connected directly to a zwickle or beer
line should make it possible to do these. Some day...
A.J.
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #5410, 09/04/08
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