Home Brew Digest: August 2008

Sunday, August 31, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5407 (August 31, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5407 Sun 31 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
A.J.'s Beer color (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
Re: Pansy water and what do to about it ("Craig S. Cottingham")
Pansy Water ("A.J deLange")
Custom glassware ("Doug Moyer")
Pansy water... (slaycock)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:44:06 -0700
From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor at peak.org>
Subject: A.J.'s Beer color

Don't go slumming on the MBAA website that Fred linked, go to the
source. You can get the Abstract free.
http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/toc/2008/jno308tc.htm
So, what happens next, you hbd'ers are asking yourselves, breathless
with anticipation and/or poor pulmonary fitness?
A new/alternative method subcommittee will be drawn up (volunteers?) and
an interlaboratory, designed experiment (inevitably, a Youden Unit
Block) will be conducted.
Results will be reported to the Technical Committee and then published
in the ASBCJ.
A decision to accept the new method and then amend Beer-10A in the
Methods of Analysis (MOA) will follow.
The European Brewing Convention
http://www.europeanbreweryconvention.org/ and
Brewing Convention of Japan http://www.brewers.or.jp/bcoj/bcoj-en.html
may adopt as suits their members.
As an outside chance, it's quite possible Jeff Cornell will review and
add A.J.'s transformations to an embedded calculator available in the CD
version of the MOA.
This is the age of miracles and wonderment. Congratulations, indeed, to
Herr DeLange. I've got to get a scanning spectrophotometer.
Scott Bruslind
Lacomb, OR

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:41:34 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pansy water and what do to about it

On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:13, "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com>
wrote:

> My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know
> that by
> itself this water is generally useless for brewing.

[ ... ]

> Are there any salt amendments that give the full suite of important
> brewing
> salts? Would the proper addition just Burton
> salts be enough to support yeast health and brew a good ale or would a
> cocktail of salts be required?

The first thing to do would be to get your water analyzed. Rule #1 is
"you can't control what you don't measure." I've seen various
mentions here of labs that do water analysis; hopefully someone will
pipe up with a recommendation.

You say that the sodium is below your taste threshold, but it still
may be high enough to affect the flavor of your beer. (That's just me
speculating; I don't have any water chemistry literature close at
hand.) If it *does* end up being higher than you want, you can always
cut some of your tap water with reverse-osmosis drinking water.

> When does one add the salts? Mash? Pre Mash? Boil? Sparge?

Since the calcium has been stripped from your water, you'll need to
add at least some of the minerals to your mash water, or you won't
get good conversion of starch to sugars.

> What are some good texts that can explain this subject (be they
> zymurgy/byo
> articles or internet articles or book chapters)

If I remember correctly, John Palmer's book _How to Brew_ has a good
chapter on water chemistry.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:45:15 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Pansy Water

Sam:

You are asking a bunch of questions the answers to which could fill the
digest for weeks. If you look back in the archives you will indeed finds
months' worth of posts on this subject. The problem is they aren't
sorted in any particularly useful way and perspectives have changed
somewhat over the years so it's probably worthwhile to review where we
are now and this might get you pointed in the right direction.

To start with water softeners: what they do is remove beneficial (from
the brewers perspective) calcium and magnesium from the water replacing
them with sodium (which may be detrimental from the cardiologist's point
of view but not particularly so from the brewer's unless the level of
sodium is high enough that the water and resulting beer taste salty).
They do not touch detrimental bicarbonate. The job of calcium and
magnesium in brewing water is to offset the effects of bicarbonate in
raising mash pH. Sodium can't do this. That is the problem. Rather than
removing the water softener perhaps you can tap into the system in front
of it. In well installations there is usually a drain valve for the
pressure tank which can be accessed. In any case a saddle valve (used
for connecting ice makers humidifiers, etc.) can be installed upstream.
Another alternative, usually available in modern softeners, is a built
in bypass valve which you could operate while drawing brewing water and
restore to its normal position when finished. SWMBO wouldn't even have
to know this has been done.

The only thing different between softened and unsoftened water (by the
usual home water softener) is the replacement of Ca and Mg by Na.
Bicarbonate, chloride, sulfate, and nitrate will all be the same. For
example, my water with Ca hardness of about 80, Mg hardness of about 40,
alkalinity at about 80, chloride at 7, sulfate at 28 and sodium at about
10 mg/L would, after passing through a softener, look like approximately
Ca and Mg harndesses of 1 each, alkalinity at 80, chloride at 7, sufate
at 28 and sodium at about 65 mg/L - hardly a blank canvas unless the
incoming water is low in minerals to begin with in which case a softener
would not be installed (unless the salesman was very clever). Even so
it is possible to approximate the water of any region you choose
provided that 1) you know what the ion profile of that water is 2) you
know the profile of the water you are starting with 3) you are willing
to accept that the laws of chemistry will only allow an approximation in
many cases. Point 1 is important because there are many reports of what,
for example, the ion profile of Munich is that are chemically
impossible. This is because averages are reported, inconsistencies in
units, errors in recording, measurement and reporting and changes in
values over time as the reports are passed from brewer to brewer. One
also needs to keep in mind that there is little point in duplicating the
hardness and alkalinity of Munich water in preparation for making a
Helles as the first step is going to be softening/decarbonation of that
water.

In any case the first step is in understanding what you have to work
with. If on a well send a sample (pre softener ) off to a lab. If on a
municipal supply get the annual water quality report from the
municipality. It is a simple matter to calculate post softener results
from pre-softener data. Based on your supply you can then decide how to
go about getting the water you need. If your water should be high in
hardness and alkalinity but low in everything else (like Munich's) then
you can decarbonate (by treating with lime or boiling) and perhaps
dilute with some purchased DI or RO water. Another option is to install
an RO device (in front of the softener) to obtain RO water for blending
or for use with salt additions to approximate a desired ion progile.
Salt additions to low mineral content water can be obtained from the
recipes posted on my website (www.wetnewf.org).

If the water is more or less normal it is still possible to supplement
with salts to approximate desired properties. With the exception of
hardness and alkalinity it is difficult to remove ions (RO, anion/cation
exhangers will serve but tend to be expensive and slow). Thus you can't
expect to acheive a profile with less of something than your source
water unless you dilute that something to below the desired level (or
remove it somehow). Working with diluted tap water is very doable.
Dilute enough to get the largest item you want down to where you want it
(e.g. I have 28 mg/L sulfate and would like a quarter of that for
Bohemian Pils so dilute 3:1 with RO water) and then supplement back up
anything that got diluted too much in attacking the main offender.

For synthesis from low mineral content (or DI) water I've got a
spreadsheet which I'm working on for an upcoming brewing water class
which I suppose is far enough along that I can post it and I've done so.
It's also at www.wetnewf.org. Bear in mind that it needs a little polish.

Finally, the perspective seems to have shifted from slavish attempts to
duplicate the water of, for example, Dortmund to the more practical
assessment of Residual Alkalinity (hardness and alkality dependent) and
adjustment to get proper mash pH with tweaking of "stylistic" ions
(sodium, sulfate, chloride) to get the desired flavor effects.

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:20:23 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Custom glassware

For those of you that have ordered custom glassware, can you share your
experiences?

I'd like to order a dozen or two "tasting" glasses - something in the 4 oz.
range, printed with a personal logo.

Ideas? Comments?

I might also order a few dozen for my homebrew club - be nice to have at the
meetings...

Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org
Beers wot I drunk:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyzaboy/sets/72157603460612903/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:44:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: slaycock at discoverynet.com
Subject: Pansy water...

"Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:14 -0400
From: "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com>
Subject: Pansy water and what do to about it

My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know that by
itself this water is generally useless for brewing.
At the outset of this question I would like to request that no one replies
in the vein of "remove the water softener" because
that is not going to happen (I do not control the utilities of the house)
and I am not ready to move out."

I'm far from a water chemist, but Ive got a thought.

It's likely that the only water that goes through the water softener are
the water for inside usage. Do you have an outdoor spigot (faucet) for
gardening or general watering purposes that isnt hooked up to the
softener?
If so, you could use that water with a good filter and have a better
starting point for your brewing water.

Steve
High Water Brewhaus

- --
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------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5407, 08/31/08
*************************************
-------

Friday, August 29, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5406 (August 29, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5406 Fri 29 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Beer color (Fred M. Scheer)
RA ("A.J deLange")
Pansy water and what do to about it ("Samuel Bosco")
MALT Turkey Shoot 2008 (Jack Mowbray)

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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:38:31 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net (Fred M. Scheer)
Subject: Beer color

HI All:

Just wanted you to know that A.J. deLange has an extremely good
article in the Journal of the ASBC (American Society of Brewing
Chemists, pp 143 - 150). He discusses Beer color in very detail, based on
measurement of 99 beers.
Great Job A.J.

Fred M. Scheer
Nashville, TN
http://www.mbaa.com/emergingIssues/default.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:08:39 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: RA

In the example in the article (Ca = 225, Mg = 40, Alk = 220) If these
are all in ppm as CaCO3 the proper calculation is RA = 220 - (225/3.5 +
40/7) = 150 ppm as CaCO3. Now as 1 milliequivalent per liter corresponds
to 50 ppm as CaCO3 one could also express this RA as 150/50 = +3 mEq/L
(not -3) but the fact that the digit 3 is involved is suspicious. If
the Ca and Mg numbers are "as the ion" (which is doubtless the case as
the given numbers as the ion are about right for Dortmund) you would use
the formula you quote from me to convert the mg/L as the ion to mEq/L in
which case the calculation is RA = 220 - 50(11.25/3.5 + 3.292/7) = 35.8,
about what you got. In general the RA formula is RA = Alk - ({Ca}/3.5 +
{Mg}/7) where {Ca} and {Mg} can be in units of ppm as CaCO3, mg/L as
the ion, grains per gallon or whatever you like but Alk must be in the
same units and RA is then in those units as well. So I think you aren't
doing anything wrong. I don't have the article to look at but I'm
guessing it's a typo.

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:14 -0400
From: "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com>
Subject: Pansy water and what do to about it

As of now, I have been using store bought spring water, which has worked
fine but I feel like it is wasteful of both money
and my time. Tap water is much cheaper and much more convenient.

So as I said before I realize that soft water is essential useless when it
comes to brewing, Culligan water systems not only
soften the water in the traditional sense of the term but the essential
remove all non water components and the way mine
is set up it is exchanged with sodium. I do not know the ppm of sodium in
the water but I can tell you that it is below
perception by taste.

Soft water such as mine also has potential to be a "blank canvas" and I can
tailor my brewing liquor to whatever style I wish
to brew. However I am not yet familiar with brewing water chemistry and I do
not know about the intricacies of amending water
with salts. As I make the switch to all grain I would like to utilize the
water from my tap and really understand my home
brewery.

My questions are:

Are there any salt amendments that give the full suite of important brewing
salts? Would the proper addition just Burton
salts be enough to support yeast health and brew a good ale or would a
cocktail of salts be required?

When does one add the salts? Mash? Pre Mash? Boil? Sparge?

What are some good texts that can explain this subject (be they zymurgy/byo
articles or internet articles or book chapters)

As experienced brewers what have you all found that works well?

Thnank you,
Sam Bosco

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:20:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Mowbray <jmowbray at verizon.net>
Subject: MALT Turkey Shoot 2008

Maryland Ale and Lager Technicians (MALT) are pleased to
announce their 4th Annual Turkey Shoot* Homebrew Competition.
This is a BJCP-sanctioned event.

In addition to quality feedback on all entries, cash prizes will be
awarded for Best of Show as well as for 2nd and 3rd place overall.
Ribbons and sponsored prizes will be awarded to individual category
winners.

The competition will be held Sunday, November 9th at Clipper
City Brewing Company in Baltimore, MD. All BJCP beer categories
will be accepted. The deadline for entries is November 1st.

Additional information, rules, entry forms, and bottle labels may
be found at the MALT website: http://www.maltclub.org

As in the past, we welcome the participation of BJCP-accredited
judges. Anyone who is interested in helping with the judging should
contact:

Mike McMahon
fishandbrew at comcast.net

*no live birds will be harmed during this event

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5406, 08/29/08
*************************************
-------

Thursday, August 28, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5405 (August 28, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5405 Thu 28 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Disturbance in the Froth, you say? ("Pat Babcock")
I can't follow John Palmer's RA numbers in a recent Zymurgy article? ("stevesveil-hbd@yahoo.com")

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More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:44:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Disturbance in the Froth, you say?

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Well, many have noticed that the HBD seems to have
"blinked out" of existence. To wit the HBD might
respond: the rumor of my demise is highly
exaggerated...

The HBD networks have moved to a new provider, and
you are experiencing the transition issues.

Here's why it seems to be taking so long:

Since our old provider was so slow, the TTL (time
to live) records in our DNS were set to 48 hours -
this meant that other DNS servers would touch ours
every 48 hours to ensure they were up to date.
Unfortunately, it also means that your
local DNS server likely is still dealing with the
old DNS record, which now point off into the ether.
The "48 hours" I'm talking about here *should* be
expired sometime Friday, 29 August; however
(there're always "howevers", aren't there?)...

Since we host our own DNS servers, I also had to
update the IP addresses associated with those
servers with our registrar. That means that when
many reach out to touch our DNS servers, they may
get only air if the change in IP address for our
DNS servers has not propagated through yet. This
appears to not be much of an issue as I had remote
utilities reporting the proper address within hours
of the change. Some ISPs will take longer to update,
some already have it.

Finally, and as usual, the persnickety HBD server is
coughing up some of its own problems, which I am
working steadily to resolve. These problems may
cause "within site" referencing errors when visiting
the HBD, including access to Brews and Views, The
Recipator, The Fleamarket, and the admin controls of
any mailing list hosted here.

The GOOD news is that sendmail seems to be humming
along just fine.

I am redeploying the machines in our network and,
once completed, our new ISP will create reverse DNS
records for our IP space - something our last ISP
claimed to have done, but something that apparently
never functioned while we were on board. This
*should* fix all of the domains which were bouncing
the HBD traffic out of hand because (a) we're finally
off of the Covad network, whose IPs many ISPs
automatically reject (they have/had a lot of
"unsecured" dial-ups, and a lot of
rogue domains on their DSL, from what I
understand...) and (b) reverse DNS
resolution is used by many mail servers today to
authenticate the incoming mail.

If you have a domain hosted by the HBD network, you
should be OK in a short period of time, if not
already. If you are such a person (domain hosted; not
just a website), please be sure to email me next week,
as I'll have some changes you'll need to make with your
registrar once I finish redeploying machines on the
etwork - I'm planning to separate DNS from any other
processes, so the you nameservers will need to be
changed with your registrar.

Plus, in terms of those Brews and Views fans, this line
should prove to be about 16 times faster than the old
connection, and a much lower monthly cost.

With that all said, please have a safe and enjoyable
weekend - holiday weekend, here in the states!
Hopefully, when we come up on the other side of it, all
will be well once again with the HBD network!

All the best!

Pat Babcock
Chief of Janitorial Services
Home Brew Digest, Inc.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "stevesveil-hbd at yahoo.com" <stevesveil-hbd@yahoo.com>
Subject: I can't follow John Palmer's RA numbers in a recent Zymurgy article?

Hi all,

In Zymurgy magazine (volume 31 No 4 July/August 2008) John Palmer has a
nice article titled "The Role of Residual Alkalinity". However in table 6
"Water: Classic Cities and Their Beer Styles" there is a
"RA (ppm as CaCO3)" column that I can't calculate the results for. Well I
do calculate the RA for Pilsen Ok but none of the other cities.

I'm just learning about water chemistry for brewing and this is
confusing me. Maybe I'm not fully understanding something?

I'm using the last ra equation from A.J. deLange post #4976 Sunday 19
March 2006.

ra = alk - 50*([Ca]/20/3.5 + [Mg]/12.15/7) ppm as CaCO3
where:
ra is in ppm as CaCO3
alk is in ppm as CaCO3
Ca is in ppm
Mg is in ppm

For example in table 6 John list Dortmund as
Ca (ppm) = 225
Mg (ppm) = 40
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 (ppm) = 220
RA (ppm as CaCO3) = -3

When I calculate using these values I get ra = 36. That not even
close to John's RA (ppm as CaCO3) = -3!
Can someone please help me understand where I've gone wrong?,
Thanks,
Steve Seeley
Shingle Springs, CA (between Sacramento and Tahoe off highway 50)

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5405, 08/28/08
*************************************
-------

Wednesday, August 27, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5404 (August 27, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5404 Wed 27 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
WTF: Water Analysis (IT)" <stjones@eastman.com>
RE: Best yeast for saison ("Josh Knarr")
Water Hardness ("A.J deLange")
Re: Saison yeasts ("Blake Mikesell")
Chico strain and diacetyl (Matt)
Dark wheat (Thomas Rohner)
Locust Bean Beer! (slaycock)

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
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LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 07:35:21 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (IT)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: WTF: Water Analysis

Wow . what a brain cramp.

I was mixing up chlorine removal and hardness removal (lime treatment).

I guess my brain stayed on vacation an extra day. That's what I get for
not
observing the break-in period after a 2 week vacation ending with a 3
day
homebrew campout!

- ------------------------------------
Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
[421.7, 168.5deg] AR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:14:04 -0400
From: "Josh Knarr" <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Best yeast for saison

Reculture it from a bottle of Saison Dupont if you're looking for
something that's immediately "classic".

I'm told from other mailing list conversations that WLP566 is exactly
this yeast (White Labs Saison II). For a recent batch of Pumpkin Ale
which I thought would do well with the flavor profile, I used a
cultured yeast from a bottle of Saison Dupont along with WLP565 (no
WLP566 available here).

Then I forgot that the conversion from AG to DME is .6, so there's
probably twice as much malt in there as is reasonable for the yeast
and style. This is going to make a very interesting beer.

- --

Fred Allen - "California is a fine place to live - if you happen to
be an orange."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:54:38 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Water Hardness

I've been asked how I got total hardness of 200 ppm as CaCO3 in my
response in #5403 to Steve Jones question in #5402. Steve reported his
water as having 63.8 Ca++, 10.1 Mg++, 5.8 Na+, 6.7 SO4--, 13 Cl- and 230
HCO3- with no units specified. Given the usual way of doing things we
assume all numbers to be mg/L "as the metal" in the case of calcium,
magnesium and sodium, and "as the ion" in the case of the other species.
To test this hypothesis I assume a pH of about 7 and see if the water's
cation/anion balance is good which it is. Thus we look at 63.8 mg/L
calcium ion with an equivalent weight of 20 which gives 3.19
milliequivalents/L calcium and 10.1 mg/L magnesium with an equivalent
weight of 12.15 for 0.83 mEq/L magnesium and thus a total hardness of
4.02 mEq/L. Because 100 mg/L calcium carbonate dissolved by carbonic
acid (the usual mechanism in natural waters) results in 2 mEq/L calcium
hardness and 2 mEq/L alkalinity water chemists commonly multiply mEq/L
by 50 to get 100 "ppm as CaCO3" harness and 100 ppm as CaCO3 alkalinity
from 100 mg CaCO3. These are the usual units for specifying hardness
and alkalinity. Doing this gives 201 ppm as CaCO3 for Steve's water
which I rounded to 200. That's it!

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:12:54 -0400
From: "Blake Mikesell" <blake.mikesell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Saison yeasts

Doug,

This is a newer strain, and not even labelled a Saison yeast strain,
but I'll be using it a lot in the future.

>From Wyeast's site:

Wyeast 3726 PC Farmhouse Ale
This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes.
Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for
farmhouse ales and saisons.
Attenuation 74-79%
Alc. Tolerance 12%
Flocculation variable
Temperature Range 70-95F (21-35C)

I like this one because it gives more of the Fantome style saison
traits, more of the funky qualities that one doesn't always find in
other yeast strains. I have used it to make a standard saison, and a
fruited wild ale, and both came out with great success.

Unfortunately/fortunately, this is a seasonal strain by Wyeast and if
you wish to keep using it, you'll have to harvest the yeast yourself.
The advantage is that you can save money not buying packets all the
time, and the one extra step isn't all that difficult.

I'm sure there will be others with much more information than I have
on this subject.

Blake

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:30:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Chico strain and diacetyl

I'd love to hear any experiences or wisdom people have
about what would cause the Chico (WY1056/WLP001/US-05)
ale strain to leave noticable diacetyl. I've had some
experiences in which the dry version US-05 leaves
residual diacetyl when using two packs (rehydrated in
85F water) for 5 gallons of 13P all-grain beer. (BTW
I do not crash cool my beer before the 2 week point.)

I know "standard wisdom" is that the Chico strain is
very clean (which is why I use it, for certain pseudo-
lager-ish beers). However, "Brew Like a Monk" quotes
Vinnie Cilurzo as stating that it can spit out diacetyl
above 68F (I assume he means enough diacetyl that it may
not get entirely mopped up later on--obviously at least
some diacetyl would be produced at any temperature).

My experience is somewhat consistent with this statement,
in that I generally don't get noticable residual diacetyl
when the initial (pre-slowdown) portion of the ferment
takes place at 66F or lower. But I'd like to hear about
what other people have experienced with this strain.

Any thoughts?

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:36:53 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Dark wheat

Hi Aaron

i'm a fan of simple receipes as well.
The last dark wheat i made was with a 50/50 grist (pils/dark wheat).
It doesn't get very dark, certainly not "porterish". If i want it that way,
i'd go for 50% dark wheat, 35% pils , 15% munich and some
1-2% high-SRM stuff like Carafa or choc. I don't like to use more
than 50% wheat malt(light or dark), because of the sparge problems.
I also don't like to use too much of the high-SRM malts, because
they tend to impart a burnt flavour imho.
While a "helles weizen" rather looses it's typical signature with aging,
a "dunkelweizen" mellows over time and gets better for quite a while.
(Most of the time, that's as long as it lasts...)
Your recipe suggestion makes sense to me, maybe a bit more munich
and bit less choc for my taste. But if you like it really dark, your recipe
looks good. (munich at 8 SRM and choc at 500)

This year, we made 3 batches of "helles weizen", a raspberry wheat
and instead of a regular dark, we made a dark wheat bock Aventinus-clone.

as my post was rejected originally due to the 80 char limit, i have read the
posts already answering your question. I see it the same way they do.

Cheers Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:09:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: slaycock at discoverynet.com
Subject: Locust Bean Beer!

Here's one for your strange request file..
A friend of a friend has heard of a "Locust Bean Beer" and was asking if I
heard or know how to make such a concoction.

Anybody have any ideas? Or sources I might check out for such.

Thanks for any help!
Steve Laycock
High Water Brewhaus
Pleasant Hill Mo.

- --
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5404, 08/27/08
*************************************
-------

Monday, August 25, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5403 (August 25, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5403 Mon 25 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
RE: Dunkelweizen questions ("David Houseman")
Water ("A.J deLange")
Best yeast for saison ("Doug Moyer")
Re: Dunkelweizen (Kai Troester)
Siebel Sensory Analysis Seminar at GABF ("Lemcke Keith")
Error in Aeration Methods Experiments (Fred L Johnson)

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:20:18 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Dunkelweizen questions

Aaron,

I would not describe a Dunkelweizen as "porterish" and roasted malts
wouldn't be a great choice. Of course there are a number of opinions, but
I've made, and had from others, the best Dunkelweizens which were
essentially 50/50 Wheat/Munich malts. A bit (couple ounces) of de-husked
Carafa if you want this to be darker. I'm not in favor of using others'
recipes since there are so many variables that you won't get the same beer
anyway. It is good to look at what others do (Ray's book, Designing Great
Beers is an excellent read). But then create your own recipe to match your
system and your ingredients. Yes, I believe all beers, ales and lagers
alike benefit from a period of cold conditioning.

David Houseman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:17:05 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Water

Your water isn't that hard (total hardness = 200 ppm as CaCO3) but it is
too hard for Pilsners and other beers that require soft water though the
sulfate level is low enough for beers that use quantities of noble hops.
So all you have to is decarbonate somewhat and that will remove much of
the hardness at the same time. There are dozens of articles on
decarbonation methods in the HBD archives. Use of Campden tablets is not
one of them - those are used to combat chloramine if your municipal
supplier uses that for disinfection. The time honored method of
decarbonation is simple boiling - chalk precipitates and the remaining
water has hardness of about 50 - 100 ppm as CaCO3 which, given the low
sulfate, is probably OK for Pils etc. though you can get it softer by
dilution 1:1 or 2:1 distilled:treated water.

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:30:54 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Best yeast for saison

I've been thinking about brewing a saison in the next week or two. From
those who brew this style fairly often, what's your favorite saison yeast
(and why)?

Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org
Beers wot I drunk:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyzaboy/sets/72157603460612903/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:37:50 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Dunkelweizen

> I want there to be a clear contrast between the two, with the
> dunkelweizen being almost "porterish," if that makes sense. I mean I
> want a roasted character to it to add some depth to the flavor. I'm
> planning on a pretty straight-ahead wheat/pils/munich/choc wheat
> grist. Is that close? It seems most of the online recipes I find for
> the style have about 7 different malts/grains in them, and I'm a big
> believer in keeping recipes simple. Would 50/40/5/5
> (wheat/pils/munich/choc) be Ok? Anyone have a recipe they want to
> share?

Aaron,

On my recent trip to Germany, I found only a few dark Weissbier
examples that showed a hint of roast in the taste and finish(Erdinger
and Franziskaner). Although roast is not typical, in small amounts it
can still be stylistic accurate. In order to make a Dunkles Weissbier
that is more than just a colored Helles Weissbier, like Erdinger seems
to be, I suggest using 50-60% wheat, 47-37% dark Munich and only 3% or
less specialty malts like chocolate and/or Carafa. Maybe even the
dehusked Carafa Special, which will still give you a hint of roast
when 3% are used in the grist. The large amount of Munich malt will
give it the full character of a dark German beer.

> Also - in the German Wheat Beer "Classic Beer Styles" book, Eric
> Warner gives an indication that a dunkelweizen should be cold
> conditioned for several weeks before serving.

That may have something to do with the fact that the Dunkel Weissbier
generally has less yeast derived characteristics. They should be there
but not as prominent as you want them in the lighter version as to
much might clash with the dark malt character. In addition to that,
the dark malt character may need some time to develop.

> but is it an important step?

Just keep some bottles for longer and see for yourself.

Kai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:01:02 -0400
From: "Lemcke Keith" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com>
Subject: Siebel Sensory Analysis Seminar at GABF

Siebel Institute & Brewers Association
Sensory Analysis Seminar

When:
During the Great American Beer Festival
1:00 pm - 5:00 pm
Friday, Oct. 10, 2008

Where:
Maddie Silks Room
Denver Marriott City Center
1701 California Street
Denver, CO

It is once again time to get your taste buds working in preparation for
America's greatest beer experience! The Siebel Institute of Technology
and Brewers Association are proud to present professional-level brewing
education at the 2008 Great American Beer Festival in Denver.

The 4-hour Siebel Institute Sensory Analysis Seminar is designed to
train professional brewers in the process of sensory evaluation of beer.
During this informative, practical presentation, students will learn to
employ techniques used in professional breweries worldwide to assess the
quality of their ales and lagers. The seminar will follow the brewing
process from brewhouse to packaged product focusing on positive and
negative flavor compounds produced during the various stages of the
brewing process, including fermentation, maturation, packaging and
storage. The origin and control of the various flavors will be discussed
and students will have the opportunity to smell & taste beers that have
been spiked with a variety of food-grade flavor compounds.

The $125 fee includes the 4-hour presentation, seminar notebook, and all
tasting samples. To find out more about this excellent presentation, or
to register (space is limited), please contact the Siebel Institute of
Technology in Chicago by phone at 312-255-0705, ext. 118 or by e-mail at
info at siebelinstitute.com <BLOCKED::mailto:info@siebelinstitute.com> .

You can book space in the Sensory program by contacting Lupe Zepeda via
email, lzepeda at siebelinstitute.com <mailto:lzepeda@siebelinstitute.com>
. To reserve a space you must provide a credit card number (Visa or
MasterCard) or mail a check (the space is held from the time the check
arrives in Chicago). If you require a receipt, one will be forwarded
after the transaction is completed, which may take several days as
transactions are batched for processing. Please note that payment is
non-refundable in the case of cancellation or non-appearance by the
attendee. For further information contact the Siebel Institute by e-mail
at info at siebelinstitute.com <mailto:info@siebelinstitute.com> or by
phone at 312-255-0705.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:07:08 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Error in Aeration Methods Experiments

Fellow brewers:

You will recall that I reported some results of the rates of
dissolving oxygen in water by various aeration methods. These results
were put into a manuscript which posted on the web and I reported the
results in an interview with James Spencer, published as a podcast.
I and others have been surprised at the relatively high oxygen
content that I measured on the water after I delivered it to the
carboy or bucket. Unfortunately, I have discovered that my meter is
probably giving me falsely high values a the low end of the dissolved
oxygen content of water and the actual values of the oxygen content
of water delivered to the carboy and bucket were probably
considerably lower than I reported.

This past weekend, I attempted to measure the oxygen content of
boiled water collected in a one quart Mason jar submerged in the
boiling water and sealed immediately with no air. I sampled at
several time points: just before boil, at the beginning of the boil,
and at 5, 10, 15, and 25 minutes after the start of boil. The samples
were allowed to cool to nearly room temperature and the oxygen
content of the water was measured immediately after opening each
container. The minimum value was reached shortly after boiling at
about 2.5 mg/L. This value surprised me also, so I just tested the
meter by progressively adding sodium metabisulfite to a quart of
water. As I added bisulfite, the oxygen content went from 8.46 mg/L
down to a minimum of 3.2 mg/L. Now I am convinced that my DO meter is
in error at the low end and that the minimum value of oxygen in the
earlier experiments was lower than I reported.

I am very sorry for the confusion this may have caused, but I hasten
to say that I don't think this will change the major conclusions of
the reported experiment. I believe the relative rates of oxygen
dissolution using the methods reported will not change, that is
shaking was fastest, followed by 1 liter/min air pumped through an
aeration stone, followed by 1 liter/min air pumped without an
aeration stone. Pumping air at only about 100 mL/min, with our
without an aeration stone was a relatively poor method of dissolving
air.

I will repeat the experiments if and when I figure out why my meter
is failing me or if I get a more accurate meter/probe.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5403, 08/25/08
*************************************
-------

Sunday, August 24, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5402 (August 24, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5402 Sun 24 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Dunkelweizen questions ("Aaron Hermes")
Re:StarSan and California (Brian Miller)
Water analysis ("Steve Jones")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:13:49 -0400
From: "Aaron Hermes" <aaron.hermes at gmail.com>
Subject: Dunkelweizen questions

I'm getting ready to brew a dunkelweizen and a traditional hefeweizen.
I want there to be a clear contrast between the two, with the
dunkelweizen being almost "porterish," if that makes sense. I mean I
want a roasted character to it to add some depth to the flavor. I'm
planning on a pretty straight-ahead wheat/pils/munich/choc wheat
grist. Is that close? It seems most of the online recipes I find for
the style have about 7 different malts/grains in them, and I'm a big
believer in keeping recipes simple. Would 50/40/5/5
(wheat/pils/munich/choc) be Ok? Anyone have a recipe they want to
share?

Also - in the German Wheat Beer "Classic Beer Styles" book, Eric
Warner gives an indication that a dunkelweizen should be cold
conditioned for several weeks before serving. This seems odd to me,
but is it an important step? I'm hoping to have this beer to drink in
just under a month, so I'd really need to get on it if I want to cold
condition it. I know that I got some feedback that Horst Dornbusch
was off-target on something in the series, is Eric Warner making stuff
up, too?

Thanks!

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:34:32 -0700
From: Brian Miller <bj_mill at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:StarSan and California

Calvin wrote:

> I just noticed a little blurb on Northern Brewer's site:
> "Due to recent restrictions by the state of California,
> we are unable to ship Star San to California until further notice."
My LHBS owner in northern CA was inspected by someone from
some state agency and was dinged for having the word "sanitizer"
on his metabisulfite labels. My understanding was that anything
labelled "sanitizer" is equivalent to a pesticide and must be
registered with said state agency. Perhaps the state is cracking
down on unlicensed mild pesticide manufacturers as one way to
address the $15,000,000,000 budget deficit for 2009?

Brian Miller

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:36:53 -0400
From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Water analysis

I'm about to send a sample of my water off to Ward Labs for an analysis.
The last report I got from my water supplier wasn't geared toward
homebrewers, but it works out to this:

Ca 63.8
Mg 10.1
Na 5.8
SO4 6.7
Cl 13
HCO3 230

This is ovbiously rather hard, and not suitable for brewing pilsners or
other light beers. I've read about using campden tablets to remove much of
the temporary hardness (1 crushed tablet per 20 gal) but I don't know what
the resulting profile would be.

So my question is twofold:
1. Is there a way to calculate the resulting profile when I do use campden
tabs?
2. If not, would it be worthwhile to send two samples ... 1 as normal, and 1
from the same water treated with campden?

Thanks,

Steve Jones
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://www.franklinbrew.org
Johnson City, TN

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5402, 08/24/08
*************************************
-------

Friday, August 22, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5401 (August 22, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5401 Fri 22 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Valves, Starsan ("A.J deLange")
RE: Source for valves and other fittings ("Mike Sharp")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:22:13 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Valves, Starsan

An excellent source for many brewery needs, including valves of all
sorts (sanitary 3A, check valves etc.) and other fittings is McMaster
Carr. Their web site (www. mcmaster.com) makes it relatively easy to
find even the most obscure piece, they sell to anybody and because I (in
Virginia) live relatively close to them (N.J.) anything I order today
arrives tomorrow without having to pay for overnight delivery.

If you wish to pay more (sometimes lots more) for the same functionality
there is always Cole Parmer.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I'm sure that careful investigation would reveal that Starsan, like so
many things in this world, "...is known to the state of California to
produce birth defects..." by which I believe they mean rational thinking.

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:01:09 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Source for valves and other fittings

Paul is looking for a Source for valves and other fittings...

I've bought a lot of that sort of stuff from one particular seller on eBay:
Sintrol. He's in Gurnee Il. At the moment he has a 3-way Teflon diaphragm
valve with 3/4 sanitary fittings for sale, which is a nice valve design if
you want to throttle, but probably not so much for switching flow. On the
other hand, it's pretty cheap, and it should work. AFAIK, since it has a
Teflon diaphragm, it should handle the temperature.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ITT-Pur-Flo-3-4-Stainless-Teflon-Diaphragm-Vlv-3-Way_W0Q
QitemZ170252882068QQihZ007QQcategoryZ11809QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI
tem

If you contact him and tell him what you want, there's a good chance he'll
have it and then he'll put it on an auction for you.

I recommend installing valves and pumps and things like that with the 1/2 or
3/4 inch sanitary fittings. They're nice.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA
[1891.3, 294deg] AR

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5401, 08/22/08
*************************************
-------

Thursday, August 21, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5400 (August 21, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5400 Thu 21 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Source for valves and other fittings (Paul)
StarSan and California (Calvin Perilloux)
Identifying Fresh Hops (Jeff Bell)

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:32:26 -0700
From: Paul <dj.n3rd at gmail.com>
Subject: Source for valves and other fittings

Hi,
I'm on the hunt for a supplier of food grade high-temp (boiling wort) fittings.
I'm looking for quick disconnects and a 3 and 2 way valve. It would be
nice to find a check valve.
I'm using 1/2" tubing.

Any help would be great,
Paul

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: StarSan and California

I just noticed a little blurb on Northern Brewer's site:

"Due to recent restrictions by the state of California,
we are unable to ship Star San to California until
further notice."

No further explanation was given, and a cursory (perhaps
too cursory) look at their forums and various Googling
revealed no information.

So what's up with that?

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:59:02 -0500
From: Jeff Bell <jeff at bellmedialabs.com>
Subject: Identifying Fresh Hops

Quick question, I have just picked a bunch of fresh hops from my
neighbor's garden and he could not remeber the strian. I am currently
drying them out and when rubbed have a nice aroma, I'm trying to find
out a way to tell what kinda strain it is. I have heard of brewers
making tea to find the bitterness level, but I have not done this yet.
So my obvious question is, How can I tell what type of hop it is (alpha
acid test?) and to make a tea, how much should I steep? I have been
reading this HBD for years now and figure I should write to the experts.

Drink the beer I love, make the beer I need.

-Jb

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5400, 08/21/08
*************************************
-------

Tuesday, August 19, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5399 (August 19, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5399 Tue 19 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
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Contents:
HCCP Update (Alan Folsom)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:21:03 -0400
From: Alan Folsom <alan at folsoms.net>
Subject: HCCP Update

I've just uploaded a minor fix to HCCP, now version 1.3.1. This is a
pretty stupid little bug - on start I get the current date from the
system, and if you try to enter competition info for the first time, I
preset the date to the current value. Unfortunately, the date for
months through september comes back with a leading 0, and when I use
this as an index into month names, August and September are represented
as 08 and 09, which are interpreted by the program as illegal octal
numbers. Any other months work perfectly well. Jeeshhh.....

Also included is a requested option to print all labels for judges at
one table on a single sheet of labels.

There are no other changes since 1.3, and no changes to the documentation.

HCCP is software to simplify and automate running a homebrew
competition. For more information, see http://www.folsoms.net/hccp/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5399, 08/19/08
*************************************
-------

Monday, August 18, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5398 (August 18, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5398 Mon 18 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
pH Meters vs. Strips ("A.J deLange")
Re: Pumpkin Ale (Scott Alfter)
Re: Beer Lacking Crispness (le Man)
Beer lacking crispness (Calvin Perilloux)
Re: Beer lacking crispness ("Martin Brungard")
13th Annual Music City Brew-Off - Nashville, TN ("Stephen Johnson")

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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:15:51 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: pH Meters vs. Strips

Strips require you to subjectively judge color. The color you see
depends on things like the color of the wort you are measuring, the
quality of the illuminating light and whether you are color blind or
not. Strips are, thus, of limited utility as in brewing you are
concerned with changes in pH of well less than a tenth of a point. You
would like to be able to read to about .01 or .02 and that is goint to
require a meter and a reasonably good one. Fortunately technology has
advanced and decent pH meters are within reach though they are still not
inexpensive. Meters under $100, any one that only reads to 0.1 pH or
cannot be calibrated or does not have automatic temperature compensation
(ATC) are pretty useless in brewing (IMO).

A meter should be calibrated each time it is used (once per day). Many
of the newer meters store the last calibration and report offset and
slope at each calibration so you can see how your probe is ageing. If
the ageing rate is really slow you may decide you don't need a new cal
every but it is good practice to do one whenever the meter hasn't been
used for more than a few hours.

Probes now last a lot longer than they used to especially if treated
right. I had a simple gel filled one that lasted about 2.5 years which
is quite a contrast to when I started measuring pH and got maybe 1.5
years from elaborate, expensive, double junction free flow electrodes.
Probably the most important part of "treating right" is cooling the
sample to room temperature before taking a reading. Protecting the
delicate sensor glass from the stresses of plunging into and taking out
of hot mash and wort seems to do wonders for longevity (and I think the
probes are better made these days). All the professional literature
assumes that pH is measured at lab temperature and there is a shift in
true pH (this is not what the ATC is for - that compensates for the
probe's response to temperature change) as the wort cools. As long as
everyone does it the same way there is no problem but in the HB lit. if
you see pH 5.3 you often don't know if that was at wort or room temperature.

For the ultimate in durability and long life ISFET probes are now
readily available (but I note that the only one of those I ever tried
failed quicker than most gel-filled electrodes).

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:20:39 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Ale

Josh Knarr wrote:
> It is time to discuss my two favorite things - Pumpkins and Ales!
>
> Stuff I've liked in pumpkin ales:
> * Pumpkin pie flavor
> * toasted and roasted notes
> * Little hops
>
> Stuff that's ruined ales for me in the past:
> * No actual pumpkin in the beer (all spices)
> * Pumpkin was put in raw (raw pumpkin is disgusting)
> * Tastes like vegetables
> * overspiced
>
> I have come up with the following recipe which I'm looking for input
> on. Similar has been posted to beer advocate and midwest brewing, this
> is my take on what should seem right.

6 lbs. seems like a huge amount of pumpkin for a 5-gallon batch, and I'd think
that adding it to the boil would introduce lots of starch without any chance of
converting it to something fermentable.

I cobbled together this recipe last year:

http://www.nevadabrew.com/twiki/bin/view/Recipes/PumpkinAle

It worked well for me...ended up having to brew a second batch in May to send
some to the NHC 2nd round. I'm waiting for pumpkins to show up in the stores
before I make it again...canned worked OK for batch #2, but it's easier to get
a good roast on fresh pumpkin than canned. I put it in the mash so that some
of it might convert, and the spices only get added at kegging time.

Scott Alfter
scott at beerandloafing.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:47:18 +0100
From: le Man <hbd at thebarnsleys.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Beer Lacking Crispness

> From: Jim D

> the beer
> tastes soft, as in the flavors can't easily be singled out. What I
> am looking for is crispness, where the malt and the hops can
> easily be separated when tasting.

I think these figures give us a clue as to what can be happening here

> Water: Total Hardness as CaCO3: 120 ppm,
> Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 77
> Na = 13 ppm, Ca = 33 ppm, SO4 = 9 ppm, Cl = 50 ppm.

Nice water, best described as soft, I think the issue is that you need
to increase your Sulphate, which should give you that crispness you
desire, but to be careful with it as it is all too easy. Your calcium
levels are also a bit low (But mine is 16 and I get away with it ;) ),
so could do with boosting . . . . I would suggest adding some Gypsum to
the mash and boil to raise the levels of Sulphate up to around 150ppm,
and leave the calcium where it falls. Try 1 tsp to start with and see if
that results in your beer flavour going in the direction you want

- --
Aleman
Mashing In Blackpool, Lancashire, UK
www.ukhomebrew.info - Yet Another Brewing Forum

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Beer lacking crispness

This looks like a gimme:

Jim D reports that his beers taste "soft", and he very
helpfully proved the exact details we need regarding his
brewing water:

> Total Hardness as CaCO3: 120 ppm,
> Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 77
> Na = 13 ppm, SO4 = 9 ppm, Cl = 50 ppm

That's a VERY low sulfate level for styles like English Bitter,
and the chloride seems a little bit high considering the dearth
of other minerals.

Sulfate accentuates the hop bitterness; chloride is said to
moderate it and lend just a bit a sweet, round fullness.
The former (dryness) seems to be what you're looking for.

I'd recommend adding gypsum (CaSO4) to your water,
anywhere from 1 to 3 grams per gallon of water, and
that will take care of the sulfate shortage as well as
increase the calcium level.

Also, I didn't notice mash temperatures in there. You
didn't mention sweetness, only "soft", but make sure
you're not too high on mash temperature (and make sure
your thermometer is accurate). A high mash temp along
with crystal malt can result in a dull, cloying beer.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:45:40 -0400
From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Beer lacking crispness

I see from Jim's water report that the Residual Alkalinity (RA) is about 50
which is pretty much the upper limit for brewing pale beers. This water will
be fine for amber and brown beers and would probably require even more
alkalinity for dark brown and black beers. Since Jim is having problems with
his pale ales, I'll work from there.

With the supplied information, I found that the magnesium concentration is 9
ppm, which is just about as high as you would want to go for most brewing
applications. Adding Epsom Salt would not be desirable for this water. The
overall ion balance that Jim provided did work out for the water report,
which was confidence inspiring.

The alkalinity data indicates that the bicarbonate concentration is about 93
ppm. To brew good pale beersc my calculations suggest that Jim could either
harden his water with gypsum or calcium chloride to decrease the RA, or he
could acidify his water slightly to decrease the alkalinity (again reducing
the RA). But, I'm betting that the lack of crispness that Jim complains
about is due to two factors. The first is the excessive alkalinity of his
water and the second is probably due to the low sulfate concentration.

In the case of pale ales, increasing the sulfate concentration via gypsum
addition could provide the results he seeks. It appears that he could add up
to about 2 grams of gypsum per gallon to bring the RA down into the negative
range. For most brewing waters, the lower desirable RA limit is around -50.
The 2 gm/gal gypsum addition will keep Jim's brewing water within the
desired ranges for Ca, SO4, and RA.

If Jim is brewing another pale style that doesn't depend on hop character,
he could go with up to 1.5 gm/gal of calcium chloride to harden the water
and bring the RA down. This is going to add almost 200 ppm of chloride, so
that would need to be considered to see if its desirable for the style. 200
ppm is pretty high, so I would not really recommend this rate of 1.5 gm/gal
CaCl. I would suggest that a maximum of about 0.8 gm/gal would be better to
limit the chloride concentration. Slight acidification might still be
required to help the mash fall into the desired range.

As I mentioned above, acidification is always an option for reducing
alkalinity and lowering the RA. For the alkalinity level that Jim's water
report provides, the amount of 88% Lactic that would need to be added to his
water would be on the order of 0.4 ml per gallon of water to bring the pH of
his sparge water to around 5.7. That is a minuscule amount and won't have
any taste impacts. This amount of acid is good for your sparge water, but
you would use less if he wanted to just 'take the edge off' of his mash
water and improve the RA. Since every grist is different, the amount will
vary. I suggest that roughly half (0.2 ml/gal) might be a good starting
point for a mash where the water wasn't hardened as suggested above.
Avoiding the hardening might be a good idea if Jim was going to brew a Cz
Pils.

Overall, it looks like Jim's water is pretty good and could form the
starting point for a number of beers. Well, these recommendations will help
Jim to improve his brewing results. Hopefully, you will find some use in
this message too!

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:50:18 -0500
From: "Stephen Johnson" <sjohnson3 at comcast.net>
Subject: 13th Annual Music City Brew-Off - Nashville, TN

Hello from Nashville, TN - Music City USA

1st call for all judges and homebrewers to participate in the 13th annual
Music City Brew Off(MCBO) homebrew competition sponsored by The Music City
Brewers, from Friday September 26th through Sunday September 28th, 2008.
AHA/BJCP sanctioned for all styles of beer, mead and cider per the 2008
style guidelines, entries will be received from September 1st through the
13th.

Friday night beer dinner will be held at Blackstone with presentation from
special honored guest Jamil Zainasheff, author and past AHA Homebrewer of
the year. Final round judging, Best of Show judging and awards ceremony on
September 27th, 2008 at Boscos Nashville, lunches for all judges and stewards
courtesy of Boscos. Music City Pub Crawl to follow awards ceremony.
Brew-n-Brunch on Sunday, if you are still able, this year we will be brewing
the beyond famous 228 HopGod Beer. Once again the MCBO is the final
competition in the MidSouth Homebrewer and Club of the Year Series.
For rules, online registration and other contest details go to our
competition website http://www.musiccitybrewers.com/brewoff.php
For possible entry pick up arrangements please contact me at
hoptyrant at gmail.com we will try to make some beer runs to help mitigate
shipping costs.

Until then,
MTHBWY
Tom Vista
Competition Organizer

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5398, 08/18/08
*************************************
-------

Sunday, August 17, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5397 (August 17, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5397 Sun 17 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
pH meters vs strips (Matt Falenski)
Beer lacking crispness (Jim D)

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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Falenski <mfalenski at yahoo.com>
Subject: pH meters vs strips

I would like to know the pros and cons of pH strips vs. inexpensive
electronic meters vs. more costly electronic meters.
I have been using strips so far, but would like to increase accuracy.

How often do electronic meters need to be calibrated?
How long does a probe last?
Are the inexpensive ones more or less throw-away after X amount of time?
Are they any better than using somewhat inexpensive strips?

Thanks for the help!
Matt

Greensburg, PA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 14:54:55 -0500
From: Jim D <goswell at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beer lacking crispness

I've brewed about a half dozen batches of various english pale
ales and all of them have a quality that I don't care for or want
in my beer. The best way for me to describe it is that the beer
tastes soft, as in the flavors can't easily be singled out. What I
am looking for is crispness, where the malt and the hops can
easily be separated when tasting. I've had many commercial
beers that have this quality and I'm not sure how to achieve it
in my beers. In an effort to be brief, I'll not post all the recipes
but recap what most of them had in common.
Water: Total Hardness as CaCO3: 120 ppm,
Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 77
Na = 13 ppm, Ca = 33 ppm, SO4 = 9 ppm, Cl = 50 ppm.
Yeasts Used: Safale S04, and Wyeast London Ale III
Grains: British Pale Malt and various crystal malts.
Hops: EKG, Target, Fuggles.
Fermented in a 6.5 gallon carboy at temps between 65 and 69
ambient temp. I realize this is a tough question to be answered
but if anybody has had similar experiences with "soft" tasting
beers, I'd appreciate any advice on how to crisp them up.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5397, 08/17/08
*************************************
-------

Thursday, August 14, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5396 (August 14, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5396 Thu 14 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: HERMS: Liquid Return ("Craig S. Cottingham")
RE: HERMS: Liquid Return ("David Houseman")
Re: Dumb HERMS Question (Pete Limosani)
Denaturing Enzymes with HERMS (Rick) Theiner" <rickdude@tds.net>
Moving on up... ("Pat Babcock")
Corny O-rings ("LANCE HARBISON")

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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:57:58 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: HERMS: Liquid Return

On Aug 13, 2008, at 09:03, "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been doing some research about how to return the liquid from the
> HLT to the mash tun. Some people use a manifold. Some people use
> something similar to a sparge arm. Whatever you use, it seems to me
> that you do not want to splash the liquid back into the mash tun, or
> risk HSA. The way that I liked the best was simply to lay the return
> hose on top of the mash. I guess there is the risk of channeling
> that way. What way is best? How do you get the liquid back to the
> mash tun without HSA or channeling?

I remember reading something three or four years ago about a RIMS
that recirculated backwards. The heated wort was pumped in the
*bottom* of the mash tun, and picked up by a manifold resting on
*top* of the grain bed. There's no risk of setting the grain bed, but
you do have to maintain a layer of liquid above it to keep the pump
from sucking air. I've never tried this myself, but I figure if and
when I get around to building a RIMS/HERMS, I'll give it a try.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:27:44 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: HERMS: Liquid Return

Dave,

At K-Mart, for ~$5 I bought a 12" perforated pizza pan. This can lay on
top of the mash or be suspended slightly above it. Just run the return to
the top of the pizza pan and the wort (or sparge water) drips through the
holes early evenly, but gently. No channeling. Easy enough to create a
jig to hold that at the water level and to hold the return hose in place.

Works like a champ.

Dave Houseman

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:22:31 -0400
From: Pete Limosani <peteLimo at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dumb HERMS Question

Dave,
You have received some excellent technical answers on what a PID is and what it
does. If I may, I'd like to give you a practical answer from a home brewer who
uses one with his HERMS.

The primary benefit that I get from my PID controller is that it WILL NOT
overshoot the set temperature. The reason I built my HERMS is that I wanted
very precise temperature control during mashing and sparging. Two posts back
you expressed concern about denaturing enzymes. I simply wanted to make sure
that I could confidently reproduce a recipe. The same grain bill mashed at 151*
will not produce the same beer when mashed at 153*.

Let's say I want to mash at a steady 153*. Let's also say that after I mash in,
the mash temp is about 150*. Common wisdom holds that one should add water
hotter than 153* to bring the temperature up to 153* (the set point in PID
parlance). When one does that at the beginning of the mash, it's no big deal if
its done to steady the temperature and then the mash is left alone in a well
insulated tun. However, if your HERMS is constantly dropping 154* (or higher)
wort on top of the mash in order to keep the set point at 153*, then you really
don't have a 153* mash, do you? What you have then is a stratified mash. That
is why I did not design my system using the HLT as a heat exchanger--I wasn't
worried about denaturing enzymes--I just didn't want the wort temperature to
ever exceed the set point.

I'm not try to spark a HERMS design debate here, but IMHO an HLT with 6 gallons
(or more) of water in it cannot react as fast as a heat exchanger with one
gallon of water in it--given the power and heat sources available to most home
brewers.

My HERMS has an independent heat exchanger. It is a 1.25 gallon paint can with
30' of 3/8"copper pipe coiled inside. It is filled with water and has a water
heater element in it. The PID controller turns the water heater element on and
off. The thermocouple (wort thermostat) that the PID controller relies on for
temperature input is positioned on the output side of the heat exchanger. If I
set the set point at 153* the PID controller makes sure the wort leaving the
heat exchanger is 153*.

In the example above (a mash in temp of 150* and a set point of 153*), my PID
controller will keep returning 153* wort to the top of the mash, but because
the whole quantity of wort in the mash circulates every few minutes, it only
takes a few minutes for the whole mash to reach 153* and stay there for the
duration. The thermometer on my mash turn is just a few inches from the bottom,
so I see the temperature stratification disappear in a few minutes. And I never
stir the mash!

For mash out, I change the set point to 170* and, in about 15 minutes, the
whole mash is at 170*. It gets to 167* pretty quickly, then takes about as long
to reach 170* from 167* as is did to get from 153* to 167* because the PID
controller slows down the heat application so that it does not over shoot 170*.
That is the magic of the Process/Integral/Derivative formulas. (It took a few
minutes to go from 150* to 153* in the last example, but it takes ~7 minutes to
get from 167* to 170* (the same 3* difference) because prior to going from 167*
to 170*, the PID controller added a lot of heat to get from 153* to 167*, so it
really slows it down so it won't over shoot the set point of 170*). A Ranco is
just not going to do that for you.

For sparging, I set my HLT to about 168* (I do not have exact temp control on
my mash tun), then I run the sparge liquor through the heat exchanger and the
PID controller ensures the sparge liquor is exactly 170* when it hits the top
of the mash. The PID controller ensures that I will never sparge with liquor
hotter than 170*.

Drawbacks to my PID controller?
My PID controller is programmable. I can program it for a step mash. I can tell
it to hold 128* for 15 minutes, then hold 142* for 15 minutes, then hold 161*
for 15 minutes, then hold 170* for 10 minutes. The problem I run into is that
there is a delay between when the wort exiting the heat exchanger reaches the
set point and when the mash tun reaches the set point. What the PID controller
really needs is a secondary temperature monitor so that I can tell it, "When
the heat exchanger output temperature reaches 142* hold it there, but don't
start counting the 15 minute hold until the secondary input temperature (from
the mash tun) reaches 142*. So, when I do step mashes, I have to manually set
the set point, then manually time the rest when the mast tun has fully reached
the rest temperature.

I love my HERMS and feel disempowered when I brew with others who don't have
one. Most importantly, in the three years that I've used it, I've brewed better
beer and have been able to very closely reproduce the recipes that really shine.

My PID controller is a Fuji PXR3. It powers a solid state relay (the PID
controller will not directly power a heating element), and uses a thermocouple
for temperature monitoring. If anyone has any questions about my setup, I'd be
happy to discuss.

I'd like to finish by crediting Dennis Collins and his HERMIT for inspiring my
venture into HERMS territory. His site has a lot of good info for anyone
thinking of building a HERMS. http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/System.html

/Pete Limosani/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:41:21 -0500
From: "Eric (Rick) Theiner" <rickdude at tds.net>
Subject: Denaturing Enzymes with HERMS

I am not sure if this was answered or not-- I'm pretty behind
in my email at the moment. But here's my $0.02:

It takes time to denature enzymes in addition to temperature.
Of course, the higher the temp, the less time that it takes, but
during that time, you also have activity. Those of you who know
me also know that I make cleaners and surfactants and I have
an interesting story regarding denaturing enzymes--

A company I worked with some time ago developed a detergent
that incorporated oxygen bleach and enzymes. (This is unusual
because oxygen bleach will destroy enzymes, but we had worked
with Novo to jointly develop a system that would tolerate these
conditions.) This detergent is sold for use in "shirt laundries,"
which are the water-laundry side of drycleaners (you know that
your dress shirts don't really get drycleaned, right?) The caveat
was that the temperature of the wash bath should not exceed 140 F
to prevent the enzymes from being denatured.

I don't know exactly how it happened, but someone started using
this detergent in 160 F wash baths and the results were fantastic.
We reasoned that the benefit was only due to the bleach and
surfactant, but ran it by Novo just to check it. They tested it on
their end and found that it took a full 12 minutes to denature the
enzymes, and in the meantime they were working fiendishly because
of the added kinetic energy provided by the temp.

The moral here is that in the few seconds that the enzymes are at
an elevated temp, there is little damage and a bit of benefit.

Sorry for the long windedness...

Rick Theiner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:46:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Moving on up...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

A solution to the hosting issue has presented itself. This solution will
improve our downline access speed (what you see) by about 533%, keep the
servers local, and reduce our connectivity costs enough that, even with
the termination fee for the remainder of the Covad contract, we still save
$140 over what would have been the remainder of that term! Woo-hoo!

By doing this, we can maintain the club sites and the preserve, though,
unfortunately, the commercial server may need to go as I believe it may
violate their terms of service. More on that later.

The transition to the new service will take place near the end of this
month. There are several dns and domain related records which will have to
change and propagate through the internet, so please bear with. I will do
my best to pop a note through the Digest just prior to making the
transition. Hopefully, this one will go much more smoothly than did the
last...

- --
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:14:49 -0500
From: "LANCE HARBISON" <harbison65 at verizon.net>
Subject: Corny O-rings

I have a couple of old Pin Lock kegs that were leaking due to the gas side
poppit not springing back. I first doubled up on the o-ring which seemed to
help. I then got the idea to change all of the o-rings in both my pin lock
and ball lock kegs. Comparing sizes the pin lock used #011 (1/16" thick,
5/16" X 7/16") and the ball lock used #109 (3/32" thick, 5/16" X 1/2")
o-rings. When I looked at the difference of the two I realized the 109's
would also fit the pin lock fittings, so I replaced the 011's with the
109's. I can not imagine why this would not work, but if anyone has
experience otherwise I'd like to know it before I place the kegs back in
service.

Lance Harbison
Pittsburgh

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5396, 08/14/08
*************************************
-------

Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5395 (August 13, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5395 Wed 13 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: Dumb HERMS Question ("Craig S. Cottingham")
Re: Dumb HERMS Question ("Jeff Dieterle")
RE: pumpkin ale ("Josh Knarr")
PID Controller ("A.J deLange")
HERMS: Liquid Return ("Dave Larsen")
PID - Heat Output ("A.J deLange")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:53:22 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dumb HERMS Question

On Aug 12, 2008, at 12:26, "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com> wrote:

> What exactly does a PID do? I know it has to do with temperature
> control, and has relays to turn things on and off. I assume that that
> is to turn on and off the heat. But, doesn't say a Ranco temperature
> controller do the same thing? Why would I need a PID?

The short answer: A PID is, in this context, a fancy temperature
controller. I don't know if the Ranco controller is a PID; assuming
it isn't, then a PID does the exact same thing the Ranco does, only
better.

The long answer: "PID" stands for proportional/integral/derivative,
which are the three inputs to the transfer function that turns the
input (the signal from the temperature probe) into the output (the
power to the heating coil).

The proportional stage scales the output proportional to the
difference between the measured value and the desired value. If the
HLT is cold, and it's supposed to be hot, then the output will be
large. If the temperature difference is small, then the output will
also be small. Note that the old bimetallic-coil-with-a-mercury-bulb-
switch thermostat most of us grew up with in our houses was a
degenerate case of a proportional controller; there were only two
output values -- on or off.

The integral stage sums the difference between the measured value and
the desired value over time, and produces an output proportional to
the accumulated error. The longer the measured value is not equal to
the desired value, the larger the output gets. This is important
because proportional-only controllers suffer from a condition called
offset; they eventually reach a point where the output is small
enough that you're putting in the same amount of heat as is being
lost through the walls of the HLT, the tubing, etc., and you *never*
reach the desired temperature. Add an integral stage, and you can
overcome the offset. (Integral controllers have their own problem,
called windup. Imagine that you're heating water at ambient ground
temperature, say 55 degF, to 155 degF. The difference between the
measured value and the desired value is going to be big -- on the
order of 50 to 100 degF -- for a long time, and the integral
controller will build up a very large error value. This can lead to
overshoot -- pouring enough heat into the HLT to bring the water to a
boil.)

The derivative stage tries to take into account how rapidly the
measured value is changing, and damp out wild swings in the output
value. Unfortunately, they tend to be sensitive to noise in the
measured value, and try to damp out changes that aren't really
happening.

There's a nice article at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
PID_controller>. It doesn't seem too technical to me, but then again
I understand this stuff somewhat already, so I may not be an good judge.

The bottom line is, you don't *need* a PID. However, if you're the
kind of person who is obsessed with precision and accuracy, you're
probably going to want one.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 08:27:52 -0500
From: "Jeff Dieterle" <djdieterle at hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Dumb HERMS Question

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:26:46 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>

What exactly does a PID do? I know it has to do with temperature control,
and has relays to turn things on and off. I assume that that is to turn on
and off the heat. But, doesn't say a Ranco temperature controller do the
same thing? Why would I need a PID?

Dave
Tucson, AZ

Dave,
PID is the control algorithm used to match a match an output to a process
variable, Proportional, Integral and Derivative are the 3 types of gains
used. There are several control schemes this is simply one of them. For a
pid to function the output must be variable, not to practical in most
brewing rigs. However it is possible with pwm control of an electric element
or a modulating burner. Consequently most pids used in brew rigs are doing
an on/off type of control which is exactly what a Ranco does. So unless
you're going to get fancy with buner or element control or get a pid style
controller at a good price a Ranco will do the same thing at a lower cost.

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.362)
Database version: 5.10460
http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:22:26 -0400
From: "Josh Knarr" <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: pumpkin ale

RE: Roasting Pumpking - Yes, I was planning on simply spreading it out
on a cookie sheet. Then I don't have to deal with the skin of it
contributing off flavors, etc. It seemed correct to me to bake it. One
of the janitors also pointed me to the archives which suggested
mashing it. You can also check the google archives but I figured I
would start a fresh topic.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pumpkin&domains=hbd.org&sitesearch=hbd.org

But basically I was thinking that so long as the pumpkin was spread to
pie-like thickness, it would do well for itself in the oven. If the
edges got burnt, more power to it since we're going for roasty.

RE: Raisins and Vanilla - I could see getting rid of vanilla, the
extract stuff always tastes a bit funky to me. Maybe it's just ACME's
fault. Raisins I think will add "dark sugary" flavors, probably on par
with molasses or maple syrup. The idea here is to hopefully get some
unfermentable flavor out of them.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:54:55 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: PID Controller

"PID" stands for "Proportional, Integral, Differential (or derivative)"
and means that the device sends a demand for heat (in a heating
application) which is in part proportional to the difference between the
process variable and the set point, in part a linear function of the
integral of that difference and in part a linear function of the
derivative of that difference with time. The relative amounts of the
three components are controlled through "tuning" of the controller - a
process which absolutely must be carried out in order for a PID
controller to operate properly with it's given load and heat source.

In proportional only control if the temperature of the load (the process
variable - PV) is less than the set point (SP) there will be some heat
output and the temperature of the load will rise until k1*(SP - PV),
with k2 the gain or "band", results in a heat output which just equals
the losses of the system and the PV will be regulated at whatever value
meets this condition. Note that this is not where SP = PV but at some
other value so regulation occurs at an offset. The loop is 0 order. If
we integrate (SP - PV) it will grow indefinitely but if we scale it by
another constant, k2, and subtract k2*(integral(SP-PV)) from the output
the new equilibrium is reached (we have said nothing about over and
undershoots at this point) is reached when (SP - PV) = 0 (i.e. SP = PV)
and k2*(integral(SP-PV)) = the amount of heat required to just replace
the losses. Not that SP = PV does not mean integral(SP - PV) = 0 unless
SP has always been equal to PV. With this second component, the system
regulates to SP = PV and will track changes in SP or load. If one wants
a quick response to a change in the load (e.g. ice cubes thrown into
mash tun) or to a change in the set point (step mash) the third
component which adds heat equal to k3*d(SP - PV)/dt i.e. the rate of
change of the difference between the set point and process variable is
added. This boosts heat output at times when the temperature of the load
is dropping rapidly

The art of tuning a PID conrtoller is the art of getting it to respond
to a step change in SP as quickly as possible without overshooting more
than a tolerable amount (1 degree?). The setting of k1, k2 and k3
depends on the heat source, how linear its response is to the
controller's output, how quickly it responds to the controller's output,
the thermal mass of the load (how long it takes it to respond to heat
input), heat losses from the load etc. It is problematical in brewing
that the tuning for water in a half full HLT is not the same as the
tuning a full HLT is not the same tuning for a 5 gallon mash which is
not the same tuning for a 10 gallon mash. I thus find PID control useful
only with close supervision and manual over-ride (or, to be strictly
accurate wrt my brewery, pedal override i.e. I use a foot switch for
this function). PID is fine for the HLT but for the mash tun I use the
controller more as a temperature recording device than I do as a controller.

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:03:12 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: HERMS: Liquid Return

I've been doing some research about how to return the liquid from the
HLT to the mash tun. Some people use a manifold. Some people use
something similar to a sparge arm. Whatever you use, it seems to me
that you do not want to splash the liquid back into the mash tun, or
risk HSA. The way that I liked the best was simply to lay the return
hose on top of the mash. I guess there is the risk of channeling
that way. What way is best? How do you get the liquid back to the
mash tun without HSA or channeling?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:07:57 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: PID - Heat Output

I forgot to put anything in my last post about how the controller
actually controls heat. Most of them put out a variety of electronic
signals which are used to control heat (or cold or anything else which
can be controlled electrically) in various ways. The device asks for
heat as a percetage of maxium i.e between 0 and 100 percent. In
proportional control it closes a circuit for x% of the time where x% is
the commanded heat level. For example, in my brewery I use steam. If the
controller wants 50% heat it closes a relay 50% of the time or 15
seconds as I have the cycle period (usually adjustable) set to 30
seconds. The relay is in a circuit with a 24V control transformer and a
24 V steam valve (the mash acts like a great big thermal capacitor and
smooths out the resulting heat pulses). Depending on the controller and
it's configuration it may have direct relay output or a logic level
signal designed to control a solid state (SSR) or other relay. For
direct control an analogue signal is set x% of the way between minimum
and maxium i.e. between 0 and 5 volts for a voltage control or between 4
and 20 milliamperes for a 4-20 loop. Various devices such as SCR's, gas
valves, steam valves and so on are capable of responding to these signals.

A.J.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5395, 08/13/08
*************************************
-------

Tuesday, August 12, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5394 (August 12, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5394 Tue 12 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: Pumpkin Ale ("Michael P. Thompson")
Re: HERMS and denaturing enzymes ("David Houseman")
pumpkin ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
Re: Herms and Enzymes ("Stephen Neilsen")
HERMS: Controlling Mash Temp ("Dave Larsen")
Dumb HERMS Question ("Dave Larsen")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:20:07 -0600
From: "Michael P. Thompson" <thompson at ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Ale

On Aug 11, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Josh Knarr wrote:

> For the pumpkin - Lightly roast it, either by broiling it in the oven
> for a few minutes or toasting it with a torch. One side should be
> charred and one side should be wet enough so that it still has
> something to give to the wort.

OK, two questions. First of all, raisins? I can see everything else,
but raisins? Is that just to add some fruitiness or what?

Second, how do you broil canned pumpkin? Spread it out on a cookie
sheet or something?

- --
Doras Cuil Travel--Your one-stop travel source
Do you like to travel? How about wholesale, AND tax-deductible? Ask
me how.
http://www.dorascuil.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:21:25 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: HERMS and denaturing enzymes

Dave,

A valid concern and good question. But as I have found out it's not a
problem. Denaturing enzymes is a function of time at temperature so unless
you raise the temperature too high or run too slowly at a high temperature
this works to raise and maintain mash temperatures. I, like perhaps
hundreds of others, have a B3 sculpture that employ HERMS and some have won
numerous awards for their beer.

Dave Houseman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: pumpkin

I also do a pumpkin ale every year, but I am currently on vacation so I
cannot access my records.

One thing that I would drop from the spices is the vanilla....

Good luck!

..Darrell

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:13:15 +1000
From: "Stephen Neilsen" <stephen.neilsen at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Herms and Enzymes

Short answer..depends on the temp of your HERMS tank liquor.
The problem you may have is that the mash liquor is enzyme rich and
the amylase enzymes become progressively less heat tolerant as the
water ratio increases (alpha and beta amylase are not denatured at
kilning temp because there is so little water and lots of
"substrate").
I would suggest that the beta amylase will shuffle off the coil (?)
quite quickly, though is certainly a lot of beta left in the mash
until it too gets HERM'd. The alpha should be fine at reasonable
temps.
I would set my mash temp before I started recirculating and keep the
HLT at same temp as the mash, ie use it to even the temp not increase
it.
On the other hand....

Stephen in Kanbeera

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:02:01 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: HERMS: Controlling Mash Temp

Continuing my quest to build a HERMS. It seems to me that if you use
the temperature of the mash to control the heat to the HLT -- and
therefore the mash liquid cycling through it -- the HLT will heat up
significantly more the the mash. As a result, the top part of the
mash, where the return is, can be higher temperature than the bottom
part, where the temperature probe is (that is the way my mash tun is
designed, at least). Also, you could also have a slight rise in
temperature -- a kind of latency -- after the heat is removed from the
HLT, as it will take some time for the HLT to cool off below the mash
temperature.

On the other hand, you could use the temperature of the HLT to control
the heat to the HLT. Then, the temperature of the liquid returning to
mash will never exceed the set temperature. However, your mash would
be significantly lower temperature than the set temperture, as the
liquid will cool off a bit before it returns to the mash.

I was doing some research, and found the website:

http://blog.flaminio.net/blogs/index.php/beer/HERMS/

In his system, rather that using the temperature of the mash or the
HLT to control the heat to his HLT, he uses the temperature of the
return liquid. He has a thermowell inside the line that returns the
liquid to the mash tun from HLT. Is this a common technique?

I guess that my question is: How do I control the heat to my HLT, and
therefore the mash liquid cycling through it?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:26:46 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Dumb HERMS Question

What exactly does a PID do? I know it has to do with temperature
control, and has relays to turn things on and off. I assume that that
is to turn on and off the heat. But, doesn't say a Ranco temperature
controller do the same thing? Why would I need a PID?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5394, 08/12/08
*************************************
-------

Monday, August 11, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5393 (August 11, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5393 Mon 11 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Hop weirdness ("Mike Sharp")
Pumpkin Ale ("Josh Knarr")
HERMS and denaturing enzymes ("Dave Larsen")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:03:37 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Hop weirdness

I was at a friend's house party last night, looking over his hops. He has
several that have been around a fairly long time, but the last couple of
years haven't produced real cones. They flower, but the process stops
there; no cone forms. They don't seem to be affected by any pests, and
except for the lack of a cone, seem fine. On the other side of his house he
planted three more this year, and even though they're in their first year,
they have already started forming a few cones. I think he's generally doing
things right; in spring he chooses the three best bines to train up the
trellis, and they get plenty of water. I don't know what he fertilizes
with, if anything. Any ideas what could be wrong with the other ones?

Mike Sharp
Kent, WA

[1891.3, 294deg] AR

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:55:31 -0400
From: "Josh Knarr" <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale

It is time to discuss my two favorite things - Pumpkins and Ales!

Stuff I've liked in pumpkin ales:
* Pumpkin pie flavor
* toasted and roasted notes
* Little hops

Stuff that's ruined ales for me in the past:
* No actual pumpkin in the beer (all spices)
* Pumpkin was put in raw (raw pumpkin is disgusting)
* Tastes like vegetables
* overspiced

I have come up with the following recipe which I'm looking for input
on. Similar has been posted to beer advocate and midwest brewing, this
is my take on what should seem right.

Gambrinus Mug has two submissions which look plausible (and one that
was craptacular): Aggie Bumpkin Pumpkin Ale and Pumpkin Head Ale. I'm
not sure if the pumpkin head is related to Pumpkinhead Ale from
Shipyard, but I'm not a fan of Shipyard's offerings.

Malt Bill
6.6lbs Amber malt extract
3.3lbs Wheat extract (adjust this more or less for taste)

Adjuncts Bill
3 cans of pumpkin (30oz cans)
1 tsp pumpkin pie spice
2 crushed cinnamon sticks
1 1/2 oz raisins (more?)
1 1/4 tsp vanilla extract
1 clove

Hops Bill
1.5 oz Fuggles at 60 min
0.5 oz Tettenger at 10 min

Yeast
Any Ale Yeast

For the pumpkin - Lightly roast it, either by broiling it in the oven
for a few minutes or toasting it with a torch. One side should be
charred and one side should be wet enough so that it still has
something to give to the wort. Toss the pumpkin in at flame out and
stir it for 10 minutes or so. Spices go in at the same time.

Dump the whole thing into the fermenter, after a week rack to
secondary, then ferment two weeks. Because of all the suspended
spices, expect the FG to be 1.020 or so.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:57:43 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: HERMS and denaturing enzymes

I'm thinking of building a HERMS. I was wondering, when mash liquids
pass through the copper coil in the HLT tanks, they are likely to
exceed normal mash temps. Doesn't that denature the enzymes in that
liquid? It seems to me all the liquid in the mash would cycle through
the hot coil several times over, denaturing all -- or most, at least
- -- of the enzymes in the mash, even if the main mash stays at
temperature. Am I missing something?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5393, 08/11/08
*************************************
-------

Sunday, August 10, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5392 (August 10, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5392 Sun 10 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
RE: Hop processing ... ("steve.alexander")
Re: Zymiugy Collection (beerdan)

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 05:55:07 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at roadrunner.com>
Subject: RE: Hop processing ...

David Houseman writes,
> (2) some hops are very prolific, others
> didn't fair as well. Could be my climate or soil
After 6 years I can say that certain varieties are more vigorous and
productive
than others. I'm quite sure it's the variety, not the growing conditions.
> (3) Nylon tent stakes
> make good line terminations and a board with eye hooks for the other end.
> I used heavy bailing twin to support my hop bines.
>
I use notched wooden stakes, ... tent-stakes sound good. The sisal
twine is common
bailing twine and you can get a huge amount for $10-$15 at any farm
supply store.
I suggest the cheaper sisal to the plastic stuff - as it's biodegradable and
lasts a full season in the weather - no problem.
> So I had 6 x about 12' of bines. I started at one end and took the
> hop cones off and placed these in brown grocery bags. It only took me a
> Sunday afternoon to complete this task.
That's the right ballpark. I'm dealing with ~4x as many twines and
probably
20% longer (?filter?), so processing gets tedious. I agree that when you
calculate the time - growing hops isn't a great investment. Most years my
hops are relatively late, well into September ((lots of overcast)) but
I can probably start picking in August this year. Grapes are far ahead of
a typical year too. ((maybe I'm upwind of Al Gore's place))

Weeding the bines is a b*tch too. I always intend to gylphosate the area
before the hops break the surface - but I'm always late.

-S

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:37:48 -0400
From: beerdan at optonline.net
Subject: Re: Zymiugy Collection

>
> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:00:15 -0400
> From: Ed Westemeier <willowwolf at me.com>
> Subject: Zymurgy collection
>
> For the benefit of anyone who might be interested, there is currently
> an eBay listing for a set of the last 20+ years of Zymurgy magazine
> (well, almost all of them).
> You can go to eBay and search for Zymurgy to find it.
> This would be a fantastic reference source for someone who wanted to
> see both the technical and the "artful" side of homebrewing.
>
I never thought about selling them. I have every issue going back to 1991
and was thinking of offering them up to anyone who wanted them.. just pick
them up. Will watch this auction and see what he finally gets.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5392, 08/10/08
*************************************
-------

Friday, August 8, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5391 (August 08, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5391 Fri 08 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
RE: Hop processing ... ("David Houseman")
Zymurgy collection (Ed Westemeier)

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:35:52 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Hop processing ...

While I'm not an expert in any way about processing hops I can speak from
experience, not an academic exercise. I had 6 hills of hops, each
different. Lessons learned: (1) don't plant multiple varieties close
together, they get intermixed very easily and one has difficulty
distinguishing some from others, (2) some hops are very prolific, others
didn't fair as well. Could be my climate or soil, (3) Nylon tent stakes
make good line terminations and a board with eye hooks for the other end.
I used heavy bailing twin to support my hop bines.

In late August my hops were ready. I lowered the board supporting the
upper end of the lines holding the bines and laid the entire 12'+ out on the
lawn. So I had 6 x about 12' of bines. I started at one end and took the
hop cones off and placed these in brown grocery bags. It only took me a
Sunday afternoon to complete this task. I laid out a couple of the screens
used on patio doors onto saw horses. This I did on my patio that's under
another room. This allows for good air circulation but out of direct sun
light. The hops were spread on the screens and in about a week they were
dried. I bagged this into 1 gallon freezer storage bags and froze them.
Not knowing the acid content I only used these for flavor and aroma.
Another year I simply left these in the grocery bag after drying and set
this in my [dry] basement. After a couple years I had good aged hops for
lambics. You learn what cheesy really means! By this time I had plenty
of my own hops. So the following year I brewed on hop harvest day and
immediately used all the hops in making a harvest ale. This was a great
experiment. A couple pounds of wet hops in a 6 gallon +/- batch of beer.
Just threw all 6 varieties into the kettle. Most for flavor and aroma
additions but some for bittering (just guessed).

So the bottom line is that I didn't find harvesting and drying the hops to
be as labor intensive, but it was interesting. Lessons learned: (1) It
was easier to buy hops and I got bored with messing with hops. (2) Hops
sent out runners and they were growing up everything...if the dog laid still
for too long it would have hops growing up its tail. Eventually I gave up
on growing hops and plowed these under. But they did look great so I may
start more hops in an alternate location in the yard sometime to enjoy the
looks. And once stripped, the dried bines make excellent wreaths for
Christmas.

David Houseman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:00:15 -0400
From: Ed Westemeier <willowwolf at me.com>
Subject: Zymurgy collection

For the benefit of anyone who might be interested, there is currently
an eBay listing for a set of the last 20+ years of Zymurgy magazine
(well, almost all of them).
You can go to eBay and search for Zymurgy to find it.
This would be a fantastic reference source for someone who wanted to
see both the technical and the "artful" side of homebrewing.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5391, 08/08/08
*************************************
-------

Thursday, August 7, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5390 (August 07, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5390 Thu 07 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Hop processing ... ("steve.alexander")
Aeration Methods Podcast and Revised Paper (Fred L Johnson)

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HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
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More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:42:33 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Hop processing ...

atomdebris writes about "curing" hops,

> Once cured, the hops will contain very little water, and freezing should be
> no problem, since it is ice crystals that burst the cell walls and cause
> your hops to turn to goo in the freezer.
While properly dried hops should not "turn to goo" they do contain
enough moisture to rupture cells and promote rapid staling. The
brewer at "Hopping Frog" suggested a technique I've adopted. Put the
hops (bagged as needed) into a corny keg and charge with CO2 and
"fridge" them.

> Cut your mature hops plant down at the base. Trim the leaves away until you
> are left with nothing but stalk, branches, and flowers.
Yes - that's a great technique IF you can afford to spend a week
stripping leaves off one
plant.

> don't let the circulating air blow directly on the flowers as this
> will cause them to dry unevenly and may promote mold as well.
>
No. Air flow discourages fungal growth but ...

> Put the flowers in the mason jar and fill it up without packing the flowers
> down...

WTH ?!!? Without pulling out a record book - you should get ~1+ gallon
of loose packed cones per plant and a 1qt container only holds a few
ounces of dried hops - so piddling about with mason jars is the wrong
scale. No you don't need to condense the water out - just air-dry
thoroughly.

> Once again, I haven't tried this, but it should work great with hops.

Yeah it should work great if you want to spend 40 hours processing a few
ounces of dried hops. There are several points at which this academic
exercise departs from reality. The scale is way off IMO. It takes no
account of the amount of time necessary. Comments about cutting away
all leaves is laughable - it would take many many hours to process one
plant and many hop varieties have small leaves embedded in clusters of
cones. Common "fish-line" won't support a normal set of 2-3 bines.
These things are heavy. Several years ago one HBD poster suggested
that I could make hop support from electrical conduit (the soft steel 1"
diameter stuff). That was great until the plants began to mature and
then the frame twisted under the weigh and eventually in a modest wind
the conduit ended bent-up like pretzels.

I only grow a couple varieties of hops. I cut the plants at their base
and tie up to 6 of the (same variety) plants together into a bundle at
their base with sisal twine. I hoist the tied ends up high in my
garage (~12ft ceiling) and if necessary I tie-up again to keep the
tips off the floor. In Fall the garage temps vary from perhaps 60F-80F
but it's dry enough do a nice job of drying the plants.

I've found through long experience that picking of the fresh cones is
difficult. The stem is resilient and you can damage cones pulling them
off. If you wait long enough for the leaves to get "crispy" then the
cones come off nicely, but you need to avoid collecting the crispy
leaves (not too bad, but takes time). The ideal is to pick the cones
after around 3-5 days - when they are half-dried, but the leaves don't
yet crumble. It's much faster to grow more plants than you need and
just pick the easy-to-reach cones. You can spend half your time getting
the last 15% of cones. This depends on variety - some produce big
clusters of cones with several tiny "vestigal" leaves, others have
little stems w/ only 3-5 cones all over. I start by collecting the
outer cones while the plants are hanging and then I'll cut out one plant
(or half) at a time and pick these fairly clean. When I collect a 5gal
bucket of compressed (place another 5gal bucket on top and apply your
body mass ~200lb/sf) cones I'm done. These cones are only half-dried
so they need to spend another week on a screen (1/4" galvanized
"hardware cloth" works well).

I've tried to stem dry, then strip all the stems (leaves and cones)
from the bines onto a tarp ((start at the top and run a leather gloved
hand down the bines to strip. Then you can select out cones and
loose-crush the leaves till you collect all the cones. My feeling is
that this is not time-effective.

It takes me a week of evening sessions to process hops and 90% of the
time is picking cones. It really is time consuming so I'd be anxious to
hear of any practical improvements (not pipe-dreams) about processing hops.

-S

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 07:24:12 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Aeration Methods Podcast and Revised Paper

FYI.

James Spencer interviewed me regarding the aeration method
experiments reported on earlier. He has published it as part of his
August 7, 20008 podcast on basicbrewingradio.com. You can get it as
an iTunes podcast.

The revised manuscript (in which I corrected typos, word omissions,
and other grammer screw ups) will also download with the podcast from
iTunes, or you can download the manuscript manually at:

http://www.driveway.com/c9v2b5o6t9

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5390, 08/07/08
*************************************
-------

Wednesday, August 6, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5389 (August 06, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5389 Wed 06 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: Freezing Hops ("atomdebris@gmail.com")
Re: Kunze's Technology Brewing and Malting (Kai Troester)
esters and pitch rate / CSA / Bud hop aroma (Matt)
Re: aeration/oxidation (stevesveil-hbd)
Great new book on British Beer Styles (Antony)
Re: Matching the beer to the Festival ("Mark Zunkel")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 00:45:06 -0700
From: "atomdebris at gmail.com" <atomdebris@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Freezing Hops

All this talk about freezing hops and the problems it presents made me
remember something I've heard many times in the past... that hops are
closely related to cannabis (aka marijuana). The two plants are very
similar (similar enough that cannabis cuttings can be grafted onto a hops
plant), and both marijuana enthusiasts and brewers use the female flowers of
the plant in their, uh, hobby. This suggests to me that hops can be cured
using the same process used to cure cannabis.

Once cured, the hops will contain very little water, and freezing should be
no problem, since it is ice crystals that burst the cell walls and cause
your hops to turn to goo in the freezer. I know that freezing properly
cured marijuana is not a problem, it extends the shelf life remarkable while
maintaining potency, and the buds don't turn into sticky goo in the process.

I'm not a huge pothead or anything (my occupation has federally-mandated
drug testing), but it's much easier to find information on how to grow and
handle fresh marijuana than it is finding info on growing and curing hops.
After a little judicious googling and reading, I offer the following
step-by-step curing process, which I have adapted to account for the
differences between the two plants:

Cut your mature hops plant down at the base. Trim the leaves away until you
are left with nothing but stalk, branches, and flowers. String some fishing
line up the way you might put up a clothesline, and hang the trimmed plants
up on it (if the plant is too big to do this, cut it up a bit and hang the
individual branches). Alternatively, you can remove the flowers from the
stalk and branches altogether, and place them on a metal mesh screen (like a
nice clean window screen, for example). With either method, try to avoid
letting the flowers touch each other, as this may promote wet spots and
mold.

The space you do your initial drying in should be dark, DRY, and warm.
Ideally, it will be equipped with a dehumidifier and be
temperature-controlled. 50 to 60 percent relative humidity is good, and a
temperature of 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit (15-21 degrees Celsius) is about
right, but err on the hot side rather than the cold.

Air should be circulating in the room, and a fan will work just fine for
this, but don't let the circulating air blow directly on the flowers as this
will cause them to dry unevenly and may promote mold as well.

After 7-10 days, your initial drying will be complete and you should be
ready for the actual curing. You can check to make sure by examining a
piece of the plant's stem... if it snaps easily, you're good to go.

You can speed the process up by doing the initial drying in a warmer room
(say, 85 degrees Fahrenheit) but this is not recommended. Slow, even drying
is what you want, so that the cured flowers are not just dried, but dried
evenly inside and out.

At this point, the flowers will feel and appear thoroughly dry, but there
will still be quite a bit of moisture inside, and we want to bring it out
and get rid of it. For this, we need an airtight container. Don't use
Tupperware, as the plastic may impart an odd flavor to the hops. Don't use
Ziploc bags either, as they aren't truly airtight. Glass mason jars are
ideal for this step, assuming the seal on the lid is good.

Put the flowers in the mason jar and fill it up without packing the flowers
down... just place them in gently, don't shove to create more room. The jar
will provide a microclimate that allows moisture inside the flowers to move
to the dry outer portions. Once the jar(s) are sealed, put them in a cool,
dry, dark place for about four hours. Open the jar and let it sit open for
about fifteen minutes, then put the lid back on and let it sit overnight
(but not longer). When you open the jar again, you'll find the flowers are
once again moist, as water from inside has spread to the outside.

Remove the moist flowers from the jar and place them gently in a paper bag.
Don't pile them up in the bag higher than about three inches (ten
centimeters). Fold the top of the bag closed. Check the flowers
approximately every eight hours to see if they have become dry again. When
checking, gently turn the flowers so that surfaces that didn't have a chance
to dry will be exposed to the air in the bag.

When the flowers are evenly dry again, put them back in the mason jar
overnight, and if they are moist again, repeat the steps using the paper bag
and the mason jar until you open the mason jar and find the flowers are no
longer moist, and are evenly dry.

The flowers are now cured. Store them in an airtight glass container, and
if possible, vacuum-seal it before placing it in the refrigerator or freezer
for storage. They should survive refrigeration or freezing without any
significant nastiness, provided the container you store them in is truly
airtight and isn't wet from the dishwasher or something when you fill it.

Once again, I haven't tried this, but it should work great with hops. If
any of you big burly hops growers would like to give it a try, I'd love to
know the results (just post in the HBD, I read the digest every day).

Cheers, big ears, to you and your beers.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:07:33 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Kunze's Technology Brewing and Malting

> You can order it here.
> https://www.vlb-berlin.org/cms/front_content.php?idcat=31&idart=267
> 129EU is $200USD these days ... Think I paid $160USD several years ago,
> but don't expect that exchange rate to improve ! (Semi-political but
> non-partisan comment replaced with ECON101 lesson).

If you are looking for the English version anyway, there are some US
Vendors that carry it as well:

http://www.siebelinstitute.com/e-store/ ($200)
http://www.corporatediscountbooks.com/item453527.ctlg ($185)

This is the same English version that is sold by the VLB.

Kai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: esters and pitch rate / CSA / Bud hop aroma

If you are making a good beer but want to increase
ester levels, the first and easiest thing I'd try
is reducing the pitch rate (say, by 1/3)and keeping
everything else exactly the same. There are a great
many experiments and tests showing this should increase
ACETATE esters.

(How to increase ETHYL esters is less clear, and I think
even the super ester researchers in Leuven are not yet
sure how it works. If I recall correctly, more
fermentables (stronger beer) definitely helps, and higher
temps *may* help at any point in the ferment. Unlike
acetate esters, ethyl esters seem to be produced at a
slow steady clip with much less correlation to yeast
"stress." Anyway the acetate esters are more important
in many/most beers.)

That's the science side. I, and probably a great many
others, have certainly found that at least the acetate
ester part does apply to homebrewing in practice.

- ---

Cold side aeration: if this is not the greatest
challenge faced by homebrewers, I think it's right up
there. (We all want the bright fresh flavors to last
long enough for us to drink all the beer.) To avoid
oxidation I fill any bottles almost all the way to the
top. I never rack to a secondary (but then I don't make
lagers). I bottle directly from the primary into
dry-primed bottles, rather than do an additional racking
to a bottling bucket. I never remove the airlock to
take a mid-ferment hydrometer reading, because that
would mean introducing more air into the headspace.
My hop aroma still dies (oxidizes out, I assume) faster
than I'd like, but it seems not as fast as before.

- ---

I tasted day-old Bud at one of their breweries earlier
this year, both on draft (unpasteurized) and from the
bottle (pasteurized). It was semi-blind, in the sense
that I did not know at that moment that the draft vs.
bottle products had this difference with regard to
pasteurization. I was really hungry at the time so my
senses were probably unusually sharp. Anyway the draft
stuff really seemed to have a surprisingly nice, almost
Saaz-ish hop aroma. The bottled stuff did not. Not
sure what the point of this is but I found it
interesting. Also the Stone Mill Pale Ale in the
tasting room was certainly not "day-old", and in fact
was incredibly oxidized. Not a priority I suppose.

- ---

I agree that if you believe all beer is "craft beer"
then there's really no reason to use the word "craft"
at all, unless you want to make a political statement.
(And with the amount of arguing these days about
what craft beer and is or isn't... even if you don't
want to make a political statement, any use of the
phrase "craft beer" is likely to be interpreted as one).

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 09:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: stevesveil-hbd at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: aeration/oxidation

Steve Alexander replies to Jim D ...

> I don't think CSA is easy to control at all. Say you have a carboy
> full of nicely clearing unoxidized beer with a fermentation lock. How
> can you transfer it to bottle or keg without introducing a lot of
> oxygen ? As you drain the carboy you need to displace the missing
> beer with CO2 or nitrogen, Then you have to transfer it to a bottle or
> keg where all the O2 has been removed and there is no aperature to the
> atmosphere. Read up on partial pressures and Henry's law and you'll
> see why gas-flow through a partially lidded pot or a exit tube doesn't
> do much to exclude O2.

What if on the exit tube of a keg that's being filled, how about using
a blow off tube into a bucket of water? Will that keep the partial
pressure of O2 from mixing back into the CO2 filled keg?

I'm not well versed in Henry's law.

My procedure would be:
1.) Fill keg with no rinse sanitizer.
2.) Push sanitizer out of keg with CO2.
3.) Insert blow off tube into bucket of water.
4.) Attach other end of blow off to gas post of Corny keg using disconnect.
5.) Push beer out of conical with CO2 into liquid line of Corny keg.

Best regards,
Steve Seeley
Shingle Springs, CA (between Sacramento and Tahoe off US50)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:56:26 +0100
From: Antony <anthayes at btinternet.com>
Subject: Great new book on British Beer Styles

Martyn Cornell, author of The Story of the Pint, has launched a new
book, called Amber Gold & Black - The Story of Britain's Great Beers.

For those who haven't read Martyn's books, he is one of the top beer
historians in Britain, and highly respected. He also writes well.

The book is an ebook, available at http://www.thecornerpub.co.uk/ for
around $10.

Cheers

Ant Hayes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 00:02:16 +0200
From: "Mark Zunkel" <mzunkel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Matching the beer to the Festival

I think a simple solution to this "craft" term is to point ourselves
to the Brewer's Association. They created a definition for the term
that I think we should all use when referring to breweries:
http://www.beertown.org/education/craft_defined.html. Therefore,
"craft" should be taken out of the competition's name and left simply
at San Diego County Fair Brewer's Competition. I am not going to get
into the mud slingin', so I will leave it at that.

Mark Zunkel

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5389, 08/06/08
*************************************
-------

Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5388 (August 05, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5388 Tue 05 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: Freezing Hops ("Michele Maatta")
re: Matching the beer to the festival ("Chad Stevens")
Re: Matching the beer to the festival (Tim Bray)
Re: Matching the beer to the festival ("Chad Stevens")
aeration/oxidation (steve alexander)
re: starter size vs. esters ("jeff_ri")
Dornbush/Vorlauf ("steve.alexander")

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 08:33:01 -0400
From: "Michele Maatta" <mrmaatta at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Freezing Hops

I'm a happy reader, currently not brewing, but I've been reading about
the hops harvesting and freezing without the ice crystals and such. I
hope that I'm not stating the obvious...I just want to help.

My vacuum sealer (though that might be the problem, that one is not
available) has an attachment to do containers, or jars. Is that an
option for freezing the hops without crushing the oils out? I don't
harvest my own, so I'm oblivious to the care-- I typically buy the
pellets and such from my local brew store.

Anyway, best wishes on the conservation and preservation of a
currently very valuable commodity.

Cheers folks and keep sharing the fabulously informative forum we've
all come to know and love!

Michele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:21:23 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: Matching the beer to the festival

Tim wants to know if there is a beer I would reject at our festival. This
is the beginning of the winner's list from the San Diego County Fair Craft
Brewer's Competition (full results are at:
http://www.sdfair.com/fair/pdf/08craftbrew_results.pdf ):

Class, Brewery Sub Class Beer Name Place
1 Light Lager
Michelob C- Premium Am Lager Michelob Lager 1
Hacker Pschorr D- Munich Helles Munich Gold 2
Kona Brewing Co C- Premium Am Lager Longboard Lager 3
2 Pilsner
Konig Brauerei A- German Pilsner Konig Pilsner 1
San Pedro Brewing Co C- Classic Am Pilsner Pedro Pilsner 2
Boston Beer Company B- Bohemian Pilsner Sam Adams Boston Lager 3
3 European Amber Lager
Bjs Restaurant And Brewery-Chandler B- Oktoberfest/Marzen BJs Marzen 1
Mission Brewery A- Vienna Lager Mission Vienna Lager 2
Boston Beer Company A- Vienna Lager Sam Adams Light 3
4 Dark Lager
Boston Beer Company B- Munich Dunkel Samuel Adams Black Lager 1
Moretti B- Munich Dunkel La Rossa 2
Michelob A- Dark Am Lager Michelob Amber Bock 3

We had over 500 entries from 115 breweries in 12 countries and that's how a
couple of the A-B products stacked up. They had other winners, not only in
our competition, but at WBC the month before. Do I tell them they are not
welcome because they are "the big guys?" Do I refuse Boston Beer Company
because they are now a "large" brewery? Where does that sort of thinking
stop? Who's being elitist? More importantly, as a small brewer, if my beer
places against "the big guys," I know I'm doing OK. What could be better
than to brew a Trippel then beat the established Belgian representations of
that style in a competition? If I stack the deck toward the little guy, it
deflates the competition and the meaningfulness of the prize. The line-up
speaks for itself. We had great beers; who am I to play gate keeper and
turn my nose up at a certain brewery?

Rather, it is my intent to change the public's perception of the word
"craft." These beers are crafted. All of them. Breweries, both large and
small go to great lengths to produce a great product. After the marketing
guys and bean counters get hold of it, that vision may get lost in the
shuffle, but in the end, I think it is important the public realize that all
great beers are lovingly crafted, not merely produced like spark plugs.

My $0.02,
Chad Stevens

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 13:19:46 -0700
From: Tim Bray <tbray at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: Matching the beer to the festival

Chad, why not simply answer my question? Instead, you seem to have
presumed I intended to offer some definition equating "craft" with
"small" or that somehow "elitism" was involved. All I want to know is,
what do you mean by "craft brewer?" As far as I can tell from the rant
below the winner's list, the phrase is meaningless (as there is no
distinction between "craft brewer" and any other kind of commercial
brewer).

So why bother applying the "Craft" label to your beer competition? It
smacks of marketing. You want to change the public's perception, by
removing any discernible meaning from the word? Why?

Please understand that I do not mean to impugn the competition itself,
nor the entrants. I actually like the idea of open competitions where
beers from all levels of the business get compared against each other.
What I object to is the misleading implication of the word "Craft" in
your festival's title, when in fact that word has not one whit of
effect. It would be more honest to leave that word out - this is simply
a Brewer's Competition.

Cheers,
Tim

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:45:09 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Matching the beer to the festival

Wow, mud slingin'...just like the good old days of the HBD!

> Chad, why not simply answer my question? Instead, you seem to have
> presumed I intended to offer some definition equating "craft" with "small"
> or that somehow "elitism" was involved. All I want to know is, what do
> you mean by "craft brewer?" As far as I can tell from the rant below the
> winner's list, the phrase is meaningless (as there is no distinction
> between "craft brewer" and any other kind of commercial brewer).

Now you're getting my point. There is no diference. I've learned from guys
who worked at Molson's and the little guys as well. There is no difference.
Beer is beer, and the more the average consumer equates all beer with
craft/cottage industry and appreciates the artistry that goes into each and
every pint, the better off the "real craft" brewers will be as the market
transitions to "real" beer.

>
> So why bother applying the "Craft" label to your beer competition? It
> smacks of marketing. You want to change the public's perception, by
> removing any discernible meaning from the word? Why?

The best of show trophy is the San Diego Brewer's Guild Trophy. What we
originally intended, and what it has quickly become may very well be two
different things. An artist may have an idea in their head, but once the
art is turned over to the public....

>
> Please understand that I do not mean to impugn the competition itself, nor
> the entrants. I actually like the idea of open competitions where beers
> from all levels of the business get compared against each other. What I
> object to is the misleading implication of the word "Craft" in your
> festival's title, when in fact that word has not one whit of effect. It
> would be more honest to leave that word out - this is simply a Brewer's
> Competition.

Maybe we should call it the San Diego County Fair Good Beer Competition &
Festival? ...the Really Good Beer Competition & Festival? :o) Seriously,
I've been thinking about removing "Craft" from the name. I'm just at a loss
for what to call it. It's not big beer co. by any stretch of the
imagination. The average consumer who walks into our fest can't name 95% of
the beers laid out in front of them. World Beer Fest? I'm open to
suggestions....

>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>

Thanks for the banter,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego (Fair Brew Dude)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:13:00 -0400
From: steve alexander <steve-alexander at roadrunner.com>
Subject: aeration/oxidation

Jim D opens the can of worms

> > Subject: Aeration on the hot and cold side
> >
> > I read tons of information regarding hot side aeration but very
> > little about the cold side. I'm trying to figure out how both
> > affect by beer.

Aeration is a bad term. Oxidation is the issue, and atmospheric
oxygen is just the prime culprit. Oxidation of beer and beer
components have flavor negative impact on beer. If you crush malt&
grain days in advance of brewing you are likely to oxidize oils and
also oxidize and polymerize phenolic materials. Hops contain a lot of
anti-oxidant potential, but even hops age and stale. Studies and
analyzes clearly show that a lot of potential oxidation in the mash
(when enzymes and metal ions determine the rate) and the boiler -
where despite the low O2 solubility a lot of oxygen uptake occurs.
Metal ions - iron and copper esp, can assist by transfering oxidation
state thus increasing the oxidate rate.

Healthy yeast not only remove free oxygen rapidly but as a metabolic
side-effect they reduce(the opposite of oxidize) the wort components
and can actually reverse certain types of oxidation. After high
kreusen, as the fermentation declines, the addition of any oxygen can
be very detrimental and will certainly limit the storage-life of a
beer, if not cause a clear decline in flavor.

HB scale brewing is particularly troublesome - since the ratio of open
surface area:volume is many times larger than even a 10bbl
microbrewery. Also any transfers are likely to be less well
controlled.

I sometimes bottle condition excess as well as keg, and after a couple
months when comparing the same beer side-by-side, the bottle
conditioned beer is always superior. The hops flavor/aroma seem far
better and there is a definite freshness perception. I believe this
can be attributed to the anti-oxidant and oxygen removing feature of
yeast and possibly due to excess iron ions in a corny keg.

One very obnoxious oxidation effect is the "stale cardboard" aroma
associated with trans-N-nonenal. This aldehyde byproduct of common
fatty acids (linoleic) has been demonstrated by isotope studies that
the oxidation occurs only by HSA. There are lipo-oxygenase enzymes in
the mash that may be involved, but also non-enzymatic effects in the
boiler. Normally yeast will consume the excess lipids in wort, but
not these oxidized products. Some of the most obnoxious cold-side
oxidation products are aldehydes of complex organic compounds and
fusels formed as oxygen contacts finished beer.

Anti-oxidants are merely chemicals that can oxidize without producing
obnoxious flavor products. That doesn't mean that oxidation cause no
deficits when anti-oxidants are present, just that it's not "too bad".
One point for the sci-oriented brewers, when you see an oxidation
reaction where a single carbon-oxygen bond "O-C" is changed to a
double bond "C=O" carbonyl group it should send up a red-flag. The
carbonyl group is normally indicative of strong flavors, often but not
always negative; aldehydes, ketones and carboxylic acids. Compare the
single bonded ethanol, with the flavor impact of acetaldehyde, acetone
(nail polish solvent) and acetic acid(vinegar). Esters also have a
carbonyl group, but we don't generally considers these (ethyl acetate
= banana aroma) as obnoxious as other carbonyl compounds. Most of the
oxidation of fermentation process appears as CO2 (O=C=O) which we find
sharply acidic but not flavor/aroma obnoxious.

Hops and malt both contain phenolic anti-oxidants. Those from hops
are the most active anti-oxidants. The un-oxidized form of these is
likely to give a sense of freshness. Once oxidized they are likely
fairly neutral but they polymerize into longer "tannins" and these can
taste bitter and eventually astringent. Wine is chock-full of such
anti-oxidant phenols, and as the wine ages in a sealed bottle the
tannins can polymerize to the point where they actually drop out of
solution. Beers are never aged so much, but a PVPP addition can
remove these oxidized tannoids very effectively & rapidly. Wort
phenolics are a flavor positive when un-oxidized, but are also an
effective anti-oxidant.

SO2 - many lager yeasts can produce a little (up to 15pppm) SO2. The
sulfite ions are anti-oxidant. They oxidize to sulfate and this is
fairly innocuous at modest levels in most beer styles. The SO2 is
more effective at lower pH (beer rather than wort), but an early
metabisulfite addition can substantially reduce mash & boil oxidation.

> > Hot side: This is obviously the hardest one for me to control.

Not very hard. Try crushing 2 campden tablets(sodium or potassium
metabisulfite) into the mash water for a 5gal batch. I find that this
has a noticeable impact on the "freshness" the resulting beer,
especially light colored pils & lighter ales. It certainly makes the
color lighter and paler. At that level much of the sulfite is
oxidized to sulfate. I've used ~3+ times that level (not recommended)
and have never had a fermentation problem.

> > One thought I had was that since that is preboil, perhaps the boil
> > itself will drive off the oxygen I introduced while mixing.

Nice thought, but all-source brewery O2 uptake studies show otherwise.
O2 in solution in the boiling wort is rapidly (microseconds) used to
form oxidation products. So only surface O2 exists at a couple ppm
saturation (~3ppm IIRC). So boiling wort has essentially zero oxygen
beyond the surface layer and the difference in O2 level from wort to
atmosphere drives the oxygen surface diffusion rate. You must either
remove much O2 from the headspace or reduce the boiling surface area
to decrease the rate. Less surface area in a tall/narrow boiler is an
advantage. You *might* be able to remove enough oxygen to make a
difference in a pressure cooker, but a partially lidded boiler is not
very effective.

> > Cold side: This is much easier to control but I'm wondering if it
> > is more critical, especially at bottling time since the beer will
> > just be sitting and aging. I don't know that I create any
> > aeration at this point but I am wondering if it is more or less
> > critical on the cold side.

Both are important. I suspect that HSA in excess can cause more
spectacular damage, but CSA is probably a more common source of lesser
damage. Meilgaard published a paper suggesting some extreme
commercial O2 reduction methods have only little evidence for
flavor/staling improvement, but even 10bbl micro breweries methods
probably cause an order of magnitude less O2 uptake then common HB
methods. HBs small scale and open transfer methods exaggerate the
oxidation problems.

I don't think CSA is easy to control at all. Say you have a carboy
full of nicely clearing unoxidized beer with a fermentation lock. How
can you transfer it to bottle or keg without introducing a lot of
oxygen ? As you drain the carboy you need to displace the missing
beer with CO2 or nitrogen, Then you have to transfer it to a bottle or
keg where all the O2 has been removed and there is no aperature to the
atmosphere. Read up on partial pressures and Henry's law and you'll
see why gas-flow through a partially lidded pot or a exit tube doesn't
do much to exclude O2.

There have been some nonsense methods posted to remove oxygen
(splashing boiling water into a corny key to supposedly void the
atmosphere). Do the math; there is ~3psi of partial pressure pushing
atmospheric O2 into every nook and cranny. A layer of CO2 or water
vapor exposed to the atmosphere is no protection at all.

-S

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:57:27 -0400
From: "jeff_ri" <jeff_ri at cox.net>
Subject: re: starter size vs. esters

Hi All,

In HBD #5387 Jim D asked about starter size vs. esters. He also mentioned
fermenting english ale strains at 65 - 68F.

I usually only make 1 qt starters for "normal" gravity ales (vs your 2 L).

However I would suggest upping the temp to 68 - 72F to increase the esters
instead of changing starter size.

Jeff McNally
Tiverton, RI
(652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R.
www.southshorebrewclub.org

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:47:29 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Dornbush/Vorlauf

Posted/withdrawn/reposted.

The lovely and talented =Spencer asked me to consider removing the
incendiary parts of this post. Sadly After review I found the entire
thing a bit incendiary - so I'm at a loss as to which bits to edit.
Further I'm not certain that a bit of controversy isn't called for. So
here is a kinder-gentler version.

Aaron Hermes asks,

>> >> Either that or Dornbush is misleading (wouldn't be the first time).
>> >>
> >
> > Without wanting to start anything too crazy, is he known for being
> > inaccurate/misleading?
>
Not particularly, and no agenda implied. I've always been a bit annoyed
at the AHA beer style books including Dornbush's. It seems they got
some competent authors, then held them to no editorial standard. I can
point to some glaring errors in that series, but mostly it's the
unsupported comment and opinion that are dubious & off-putting. Use
them as recipe books and background info, but you should be skeptical of
the methods & details.

> > I appreciate the references to Kunze. I've been tempted to get that
> > and read it, but I haven't seen a reasonable place to get my hands on
> > it...
You can order it here.
https://www.vlb-berlin.org/cms/front_content.php?idcat=31&idart=267
129EU is $200USD these days ... Think I paid $160USD several years ago,
but don't expect that exchange rate to improve ! (Semi-political but
non-partisan comment replaced with ECON101 lesson).

The Chicago School of Economics was largely responsible for the
"quantity (or velocity) theory of money". It's vast and complex but the
upshot is that the value of a currency is (within some rather extensive
conditions) proportional to GDP divided by the quantity of money. We
in the US have the M1 and M2 measures of money, (M3 was discontinued in
2006). Considering the population demographics and current social
programs, inflation is baked into this cake; buy the book now.

>> >> OK -so if you want to experiment with filters [...]
> > This sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth at my level of
> > production... That's what I was looking to know!
I use an insertion manifold (slotted copper inserted to the bottom of a
sanke) and pump for recirculation. You'd be surprised at how clear the
sweet wort is after 10-15 minutes of slow recirculation. With no mash
transfer the oxidation should be limited.

I *suspect* that the trubby sweet wort with husk and crushed germ adds
some flavor negatives during the boil - avoiding that is the goal I
think.

-S

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5388, 08/05/08
*************************************
-------

Monday, August 4, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5387 (August 04, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5387 Mon 04 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Re: Hop Questions [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")
Re: Will I ever find Mr. Right? (Dick Adams)
Re: Hop Questions/Advice ("Keith Anderson")
Re: Matching the beer to the festival (Tim Bray)
RE: The Works on the History Channel ("Josh Knarr")
starter size vs. esters (Jim D)
Re: Aeration on the hot and cold side (Kai Troester)
Fermenting in used plastic LME drum ("Keith Anderson")

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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:52:49 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Hop Questions [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

>>>
Overall, my homegrown cascades lacked the oomph of "professionally" grown cascades and suspected I wasn't getting a very high %AA due to some missing nutrient from my soil but that was just a guess.
Keith
<<<

Good point Keith! Down here in Canberra, the winter frosts are currently in full swing (minus 3C this morning!) and I'm eagerly awaiting the dawn of spring after planting five varieties of hop rhizomes in the front yard (with SWMBO's full permission!!) in late Autumn. Some plantings are straight out of large pots where the root balls became too large for the confines of the tub and I simply trimmed the root ball and buried it in the dirt along with some cow manure - others are rhizome cuttings which I expect will take a season or two to establish properly (although the PoR flowered in year one!).

Local wisdom suggests that well drained soil, enriched with cow manure is enough. I've also bought a bag of sulfate of potash when I read that it helps encourage flowering. Can any of you experienced hop growers suggest a good general purpose fertiliser or feeding regime that my newly established hop field will get extra oomph from?

For those who are curious, the varieties planted / relocated are: Pride of Ringwood, Chinook, Cascade, Mt Hood and Goldings.

Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club, Australia

[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)
- ----------------------------------------------------
If you have received this transmission in error please
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of information in the e-mail or attachments.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 00:34:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: rdadams at panix.com (Dick Adams)
Subject: Re: Will I ever find Mr. Right?

> <Poem deleted)

My childbride and I were just discussing how we need
two more wives. One to do cooking and cleaning and
the other to help me brew and garden. When I asked
her "Do you think this is possible?" She replied
"No, you're too damn picky." LoL

> phone number 234-7081-548-655

What kind of phone number is this?
Will it cost $5.00/minute? ;)

Dick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:34:42 -0400
From: "Keith Anderson" <keithxanderson at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hop Questions/Advice

Amos Brooks writes:

>Keith,
> I think what is happening with the freezing non-dried hops becoming
>mush is ice crystal formation. If you don't want that to happen you
>need to flash freeze the hops so that the freezing happens so fast the
>crystals don't have a chance to form. I'm not sure the ice crystals
>are really a bad thing though. They will rupture the cell walls of the
>plant and make it easier to get the contents out. This is good for
>berries as it breaks up pectins that form and releases the sugars more
>realily. I'm not sure about the hops though.

Good point, I did my best to get the hops into a freezer back and suck
out the air but probably didn't do as good a job as a kitchen vacuum
sealer. Guess if you seal it up well and freeze w/out crystals you
can keep the hops in better shape. I have a feeling rupturing the cell
walls wouldn't be desirable since you want lupilin/oils but not
necessarily all that plant material in your beer.

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 08:55:26 -0700
From: Tim Bray <tbray at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: Matching the beer to the festival

Chad, I'm curious - can you name a beer you would say is NOT a "craft
beer"? If A-B falls within your definition, I'd say it's more than a
little loose. What exactly is your definition, and are there any
brewers that don't meet it?

Tim in Albion
> We had the
> 2nd annual "Craft Brewer's Competition & Festival" at the San Diego County
> Fair in June. I define "Craft Beer" a little loosely.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 14:01:00 -0400
From: "Josh Knarr" <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: The Works on the History Channel

> What does anyone's physique or seck-shoo-al preferences (I had to
> spell it that way to get through the language filter!) have to do
> with their ability to understand, appreciate, or brew beer? Geez.
> Does one have to be a hetero bodybuilder to be able to talk about or
> brew beer? If a guy or gal can brew a fine pint, I don't give a cr*p
> how big their muscles are or who they choose to sleep with.

Ding ding ding, the winner.

Try watching the first five minutes again, and you'll be asking
yourself why he would volunteer this stuff in the first place... ;)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 13:22:42 -0500
From: Jim D <goswell at hotmail.com>
Subject: starter size vs. esters

I love brewing English Pale Ales and Bitters but I can't seem to get enough
of those wonderful fruity esters to come through in the finished product.
I've brewed with yeasts that are supposed to be quite fruity such as Wyeast
1968 London ESB and 1318 London Ale III. I usually create a nice big
starter in the range of 2 liters. The starter goes for 24 - 36 hours and I
pitch the whole thing into about 5.5 gallons of wort. It then ferments in the
65 - 68 (ambient temp) degree range. I've read some that pitching a
smaller starter will stress the yeast a bit and therefore create more of the
esters I'm trying to get. Has anybody experimented with this?

//Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 16:07:50 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Aeration on the hot and cold side

Jim, the affects of hot side aeration and their relevance for home
brewing have been widely discussed among home brewers. Even a frew
experiments have been done, many of which showed inconclusive results.

Hot side aeration (HSA) has been studied by the commercial brewing
industry b/c it was found that it leads to staling compounds that
reduce the shelf life of the final product which affects their revenue.
As a result of that, modern brewhouses generally exclude O2 as much as
possible. Some even go as far as milling the grain in an O2 free
environment by either using an inert atmosphere or milling it while
submerged in water.

In contrast to that I had beers brewed in a small German museum brewery
that still uses very old equipment which leaves plenty of O2 exposure
to the wort by using an open lauter grant and the run-off simply drops
9 ft into the boil kettle. The beers were excellent and showed me that
hot side aeration is not as detrimental to the beer quality as many of
the studies make us believe. I did however not test how shelf stable
these beers were.

While observing good brewing practices (no excessive splashing, don't
let the wort cascade into the kettle) you don't have to worry about the
unavoidable O2 intake that comes from doughing in the grain and
stirring the mash. High dough-in temps, as they are common these days,
already help by quickly deactivating an enzyme called lipoxygenase.
This enzyme aids in HSA where oxygen forms a weak bond, is carried into
the finished beer and later released to oxidize and form staling
compounds.

In home brewing, the majority of the oxygen responsible for staling is
picked up during the handling of the beer after fermentation. Here you
should pay attention to splashing, air-leaks in the racking cane to
hose connection and bubbling during bottling. Though yeast is known to
scavenge O2 during bottle condition, I have read a study that showed
that there is still a shelf life difference between a bottle that was
purged of O2 before filling and one that was not purged. The conclusion
was that the yeast isn't as good in O2 scavenging as initially believed.
O2 scavenger caps could help here as well.

But from my own experience purging of bottles or scavenger caps are not
necessary to avoid oxidation in bottled home brew. For one, our beers
are not expected to be shelf stable for a year (except for some stronger
beers, most of which actually benefit from some slight oxidation) and
we have full control over the storage conditions (i.e. keeping them
cool) as well.

If you don't have oxidation problems, don't worry to much about this
but get in the habit of using (reasonable) low O2 beer handling
practices.

Kai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 16:34:33 -0400
From: "Keith Anderson" <keithxanderson at gmail.com>
Subject: Fermenting in used plastic LME drum

Picked up a 15 gallon LME drum last year and use it to ferment in my
chest freezer. It fits with a few inches to spare from the top of the
lid allowing me to ferment 10 gallon batches in the freezer with an
external thermostat override. Every once in a while I look at the
little message on the top of the drum "Notice - do not reuse for food
or beverages" and wonder "gee, should I really be using this for
fermenting?"

Would a plastic drum suitable for shipping LME to a homebrew shop not
be safe for fermenting beer?

Keith

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5387, 08/04/08
*************************************
-------

Sunday, August 3, 2008

Homebrew Digest #5386 (August 03, 2008)

HOMEBREW Digest #5386 Sun 03 August 2008

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
AUGUST'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Visit them at http://aabg.org

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

Contents:
Beer program ("Dave Draper")
Re: Dornbusch and Vorlauf ("Aaron Hermes")
Re: Renner's Pretzels ("Aaron Hermes")
Matching the beer to the festival ("Chad Stevens")
Re: Hop Questions/Advice ("Keith Anderson") ("Amos Brooks")
Will I ever find Mr. Right? ("Caroline Albert")
From Guan Chen (Guan Chen)
Will I ever find Mr. Right? ("Caroline Albert")
Malt Madness Homebrew Competition ("Al Hazan")
Re: Filtering instead of Vorlaufing? (Kai Troester)

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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 08:27:15 -0600
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Beer program

In HBD #5385, Josh Knarr says:

> The host is a waif. I don't care that he's a PhD in Robotics or that
> he's the mastermind of The Gay Agenda. What does that have to do with
> the core interest of the program?

What does anyone's physique or seck-shoo-al preferences (I had to
spell it that way to get through the language filter!) have to do
with their ability to understand, appreciate, or brew beer? Geez.
Does one have to be a hetero bodybuilder to be able to talk about or
brew beer? If a guy or gal can brew a fine pint, I don't give a cr*p
how big their muscles are or who they choose to sleep with.

And:

* "All beers are ales or lagers." Absolutely no mention was made of
"steam beers", etc. I find the spirit of homebrewing is in Doing It
Wrong to find out what works. (I have a pilsner I'm intentionally
fermenting at 80F to try to make it interesting, for instance).
Where's the adventure?

Surely you must recognize that shows like this are intended to
introduce the idea of brewing to people who have no idea at all how
it's done. Introducing "adventure" simply muddies the waters and is
counterproductive to the attempt to make an informative show. I'm
not defending its every choice and detail, but this criticism seems
misplaced. What *you* find to be the "spirit of homebrewing" is not
what *everyone* finds to be so.

Cheers, Dave in ABQ

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew ---Norm Pyle

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:21:54 -0400
From: "Aaron Hermes" <aaron.hermes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dornbusch and Vorlauf

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 11:30 PM, Steve Alexander wrote:

> Either that or Dornbush is misleading (wouldn't be the first time).

Without wanting to start anything too crazy, is he known for being
inaccurate/misleading? What sort of things does he tend to get wrong?
Is he agenda-driven, or just inaccurate?

I appreciate the references to Kunze. I've been tempted to get that
and read it, but I haven't seen a reasonable place to get my hands on
it...

> OK -so if you want to experiment with filters have at it, but
> you need a vast membrane surface area and some way to introduce
> sparge water and allow runoff. This is not an in-line filter
> sort of solution. My reading is that it makes a lot of sense an
> a large scale where an extra 3 percent of extract recovery
> and making drier lighter grist waste is important.

This sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth at my level of
production... That's what I was looking to know!

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 12:30:22 -0400
From: "Aaron Hermes" <aaron.hermes at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Renner's Pretzels

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at Rick Theiner wrote:

> 1) Give the pretzels a decent amount of time in the boil. I can't
> remember the time requirement, but I go by appearance now. I
> look for the dough to be turning brownish yellow under the influence
> of the lye.

I go by color, too. After upping the concentration of the lye (based
on the proportions in this recipe:

http://www.kabish.com/recipes/recipes.php?id=351

the color changes very quickly, like in less than 30 seconds. Is the
color change indicative of the change in texture, too? Or are there
two different (but related) mechanisms at work?

aaron

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:33:10 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Matching the beer to the festival

All:

A bit of to-do is being made over the American breweries being featured at a
British festival. I feel the need to toot my own horn a little. We had the
2nd annual "Craft Brewer's Competition & Festival" at the San Diego County
Fair in June. I define "Craft Beer" a little loosely. If someone is making
a quality product and is proud of the sweat and toil they put into it, I'm
happy to show their product at our festival. Why does that person have to
make beer in America for it to be "craft" beer. "All politics is local,"
and all beers are local to someone. And by the same token, just because the
brewer has computers and a big budget does not mean they don't share the
same zeal for beer the little guy does. I've met the guys brewing small
pilot batches for Michelob and others. They have the same fire in their
eyes I see in small craft brewers. Long story short, what follows are the
breweries that were represented at the San Diego County Fair Craft Brewer's
Festival. We had 287 beers from 115 breweries. I was pretty proud of the
line-up. When the public sees Ballast Point presented next to Belhaven
presented next to Bierbrouwerij St. Christofel, they soon realize it's all
beer, and it's all good. I was happy to have every one of them. And
hopefully, the next time that consumer steps into the market, they don't
treat the "craft beer" section as a phase in brewing history that will pass
or something to be ignored.

And as long as I'm pontificating, the unsung heroes in all of this are the
importers and distributors. Were it not for guys like Dan Shelton who go
out and find these wonderful beers, we here at home (wherever that may be)
would be stuck with the same ol' beer day after day. These are the guys who
have made the Belgian craze in the U.S. and the American hop craze in Europe
possible. All of these festivals would be pretty boring were it not for
distributors working their tales off behind the scenes.

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego County Fair - Beer Events Organizer

Brewery

Abita Brewing Co

Affligem

Alaskan Brewing Company

Ale Smith Brewing Co

Alpine Beer Co

Anderson Valley Brewing Inc

Angel City Brewing

Anhauser Busch Inc

Avery Brewing Co

Baird Brewing Co.

Ballast Point

Belhaven Brewery

Bierbrouwerij St. Christoffel

Big Sky Brewing Co

Bjs Restaurant And Brewery-Oxnard

Bosteels Brewing Co

Boston Beer Company

Brasserie Cantillon

Brasserie De La Senne

Brasserie Duyck

Brasserie Lefebvre

Brauwerij De Koninck

Brauwerij De Ranke

Brewery De Landtsheer

Brewery Ommegang

Brothers Brewing Co

Cervejaria Sudbrack

Chimay Brewing Co

Coronado Brewing Co

De Proef

Deschutes Brewery

Dixie

Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

Drie Fonteinen

Erdinger

Firestone Walker Brewing Co

Fox Barrel Cider Company

Full Sail Brewing Co

Fullers

Green Flash Brewing Co.

Green Mountain Cidery

Grotten Brewing Co

Hacker Pschorr

Hoegaarden

Inveralmond Brewery

Isle Of Skye

Jolly Pumpkin Artisanal Ales

Karl Strauss Brewing Co

Kona Brewing Co

Konig Brauerei

Koningshoeven Brewing Co

Kulmbacher Brauerei

Lagunitas Brewing Co

Leffe Brewing Co

Left Coast Brewing Co

Lightning Brewery

Mad River Brewing Co

Maui Brewing Co

Meantime Brewing Co

Mendocino Brewing Co

Michelob

Mikkeller Brewery

Mission Brewery

Moretti

Mountain Meadows Mead

Moylans Brewing Co

New Belgium Brewing

New English Brewing Co

Nimbus Brewing Co

Nogne-O Brewery

Norrebro Bryghus

North Coast Brewing Co

Oggis Pizza And Brewing Co

Oskar Blues

Palm

Paulaner

Pizza Port-Carlsbad

Pizza Port-San Clemente

Pizza Port-Solana Beach

Port Brewing Co

Pyramid Breweries

Redhook Ale Brewing

Redstone Meadery

Ridgeway Brewing Co

Rock Bottom Brewery

Rogue Ales

San Diego Brewing Co

Santa Cruz Mtn. Brewing

Schneider Brewing Co

Sea Dog Brewing Co

Shipyard Brewing Co

Sierra Nevada Brewing Co

Skyscraper Brewing Co

St Feuillien Brewing Co

Stella Artois

Stone Brewing Co

The Brew House At Eastlake

The Bruery

Urthel Brewing Co

Victory Brewing Co

Wells And Youngs Brewery

Widmer Brothers Brewing Co

Wyders Cider

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 14:35:39 -0400
From: "Amos Brooks" <amosbrooks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hop Questions/Advice ("Keith Anderson")

Keith,
I think what is happening with the freezing non-dried hops becoming
mush is ice crystal formation. If you don't want that to happen you
need to flash freeze the hops so that the freezing happens so fast the
crystals don't have a chance to form. I'm not sure the ice crystals
are really a bad thing though. They will rupture the cell walls of the
plant and make it easier to get the contents out. This is good for
berries as it breaks up pectins that form and releases the sugars more
realily. I'm not sure about the hops though.

Amos Brooks

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the only potential problem is moisture which could encourage
rotting/mold/mildew in the long run. If you freeze hops right off the
vine and thaw them (as with herbs) they can get slimy and appear to be
decomposing. But sounds like you don't have this problem so I
wouldn't worry. I found my fresh hops added a flavor a bit too
vegetal for my taste and preferred the flavor of dried hops (although
the Sierra Nevada fresh hop ale is superb). Overall, my homegrown
cascades lacked the oomph of "professionally" grown cascades and
suspected I wasn't getting a very high %AA due to some missing
nutrient from my soil but that was just a guess.

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:05:57 -0700
From: "Caroline Albert" <caro at carolinealbert.com>
Subject: Will I ever find Mr. Right?

Dearest,
I need a man I can call my own.

This sadness in me right now,
Is giving me pain in a way that I don't know how.
It's just that I'm alone with nobody,
My life sure is colorless.

I don't know why or what to do.
I just want my heart stop the bleed.
It hurts all over me again and again,
I hope somebody could lend me a helping hand.

An injury I have in my heart.
I wish somebody could repair its parts.
But nobody sure is with me right now,
I sat and pondered all alone,
Will I ever find a love of my own?

A love I can trust,
A love that's a must?
A love without the pain,
Such a love--Will I gain?

Will he hurt me too?
Just like the others do?
Will he cheat and lie,
Or will he hold me high?

Will he appreciate what I do?
Or will he laugh and say we're through?
Will I ever find Mr. Right?
Or will all love be a fight?

Will he always make me cry?
Or will he care and ask why?
Will he want me, as I want him?
Or will love, he just pretend?

I sat and pondered all alone,
Will I ever find a love of my own?

I need you especially now that I'm alone,
Please get back to me if you are single and real
Yours,
Caroline Albert
Email:carolinealbert at ymail.com
phone number 234-7081-548-655

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:33:43 -0500
From: Guan Chen <guanchen8 at gmail.com>
Subject: From Guan Chen

I am Guan Chen, Branch Manager of Bank of China. I have an urgent business
proposal for you. Please reply via my email: guanchen8 at gmail.com

Guan Chen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 23:34:09 -0700
From: "Caroline Albert" <info at carolinealbert.com>
Subject: Will I ever find Mr. Right?