Homebrew Digest #5612 (September 30, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5612 Wed 30 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Cascade growth (Denny Conn)
Dear Lucky Winner ("IRELAND ONLINE LOTTERY GAMES")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:53:18 -0700
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Cascade growth

I have only a single Cascade plant that's about 8 years old now. Last
year I got about 5.5 lb. of hops (dried. nearly 30 lb. wet) from it and
this year it was about 4.5 lb. Due to weather and time constraints this
year, there was probably a lb. (dry) that I didn't get to harvest.
Since I don't grow any others, I have no way to compare, but that seems
pretty good to me. I live in the Willamette Valley of Oregon, only
about an hour from prime commercial hop fields, so that may have some
bearing on it.

----------->:Denny Conn

- --

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:03:17 -0300 (BRT)
From: "IRELAND ONLINE LOTTERY GAMES" <info at irelandlottery.com>
Subject: Dear Lucky Winner

IRELAND ONLINE LOTTERY GAMES
1 Cromac Quay,
Cromac Wood
Ormeau Road
Belfast
BT7 2JD

Dear Lucky Winner,

We are pleased to inform you of the result of the just concluded
annualnfinaldraws of IRELAND ONLINE LOTTERY NOTIFICATION DESK
international
Lottery programs. After this automated computer ballot, youre-mail address
emerged as one of two winners in the category \\"A\\"You are therefore
been
approve to claim the sum of 1,000,000 (One million Pounds sterling)

To collect your winnings, please complete the claims and send it to our
consultant that will immediately process your winnings through the
verification
department of the IRISH LOTTERY after which confirmation will be sent to
you to enable you collect your winnings

Mr. Raymond Johnson
Tel: +44 702 402 1771
Email:mr.raymondjohnsonoffice01 at yahoo.com

Your Name: .....
Amount Won: ......
Address: ................
Sex...........................
Age.............................
Nationality....................
Occupation.......................
Phone and fax number............
Personal Email Adress...............

Yours faithfully,
Mrs.Cynthia Lopez
CO-ORDINATOR IRELAND LOTTERY
at IRELAND LOTTERY.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5612, 09/30/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5611 (September 29, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5611 Tue 29 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Cascade growth ("Alan Meeker")
APPLY FOR LOAN!!! ("WANG HONGZHANG")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:26:13 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <alan.meeker at gmail.com>
Subject: Cascade growth

Hi Rowan, FWIW I see the same behavior up here in the Northern hemisphere.

I've been growing several different hops including Mt. Hood, Perle, Liberty
and

Cascade and the Cascade yields have always been paltry. All are growing in

the same location with identical conditions (sun, water, fertilizer, etc.).

The other 3 varieties have given good yields over the past 4-5 years. In
addition

to the low yield of hop cones, the Cascade vine growth has always been less

robust than the others every season.

Cheers!

-Alan Meeker

Lazy Eight Nanobrewery, Baltimore, MD

"Where the Possibilities are Infinite"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:04:21 +0800
From: "WANG HONGZHANG" <wang at pbc.gov.cn>
Subject: APPLY FOR LOAN!!!

BRAIN WILLIAMS LOAN FIRM:
My name is Brian Williams. I am the Owner of Brian Williams Microfinance Loan
Home, a private loan firm, I operate under a short, clear and understanding
terms and conditions. I grant loans on very low
interest rate of Three Percent(3%). Dear readers please note that this offer
is for serious minded individual,businessmen,firms and companies bodies.Do
not let this opportunity pass you
by. Get loan to solve your financial problems like establishing new
businesses, re-establishing old business. interested individuals, firms and
companies
should please contact me via this email address:
brianwilliams_loanfirm at live.com

Interested Applicant should please fill out the application details below, so
that we can start the processing of your loan.Interested Applicant should
please fill out the application details below, so that we can start the
processing of your loan.
APPLICATION DETAILS:
First Name:
Last Name:
Full Contact Address:
Gender / Age:
Marital status:
City/Zip code:
Country:
Date of Birth:
Monthly Income/Yearly Income:
Occupation:
Category of loan needed as stated above:
Purpose for Loan:
Amount to Borrow:
Mobile Phone Number:
Fax:
Email:
Pay Back Duration.:
Purpose for Loan Application:

At the acknowledgment of complete details as requested above properly fill, I
will send you a well calculated Terms and Conditions which will include the
agreement.
Note that you are to reply to my personal
email:brianwilliams_loanfirm at live.com

Regards
Dr Brian Williams
Brian Williams Microfinance Loan Home

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5611, 09/29/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5610 (September 21, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5610 Mon 21 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Caring for cascade plants [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")
Hoppy Halloween Challenge ("Susan Ruud")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:42:26 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Caring for cascade plants [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Way back in our Southern Hemisphere Autumn, I took about a dozen
or so cuttings from my solitary 2yo Cascade plant and potted them out
to develop over winter.

It's now early Spring here in Oz and one of the pots has promisingly shot
out some leaves and I hope the rest of the pots follow suit. I'm waiting until
I see several leaves (i.e. confirmation of life) before I plant the Cascade
cuttings into their designated spot alongside their parent plant. They spent
winter under the compost tumbler, away from the frost...

Has anyone got some good info on feeding these very young plants? At the
moment I've been giving them a seaweed based tonic (Seasol), as I figured
the root systems need building up before I start laying down the sulfate of
potash and other chemical based fertilizers that I normally give the more
mature plants.

The hop field is a well drained position with at least 12 hours of sunshine
and the soil is recently turned over topsoil combined with "mushroom
compost" and cow manure. The other varieties of hops planted (Mt Hood,
PoR, Chinook and Goldings) are showing quite promising signs in this
very mild late winter / early spring period...

I just noticed that in past years, the Cascade plants are relatively slow
growing, low yielding at our latitude (35.3 degrees south) so please share
any tips you have on getting the best out of this variety of hop plant.

Cheers,
Rowan
Canberra Brewers, Australia

- ----------------------------------------------------
If you have received this transmission in error please
notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all
copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent
to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver
of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect
of information in the e-mail or attachments.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:14:03 -0500
From: "Susan Ruud" <susan.ruud at ndsu.edu>
Subject: Hoppy Halloween Challenge

The Prairie Homebrewing Companions proudly announce the dates for the
12th annual Hoppy Halloween Challenge

Entries for this homebrewing competition will be accepted between October
3rd and October 16th. All
categories currently recognized by the BJCP are eligible. Please provide 2
bottles for each entry. Bottles
entered in these categories must be 10 to 16 oz. glass or plastic of ANY
style and clean and free of any
labels (inked, paper, or otherwise). Entrants are encouraged to use brown,
long-neck bottles for maximum
protection from light and breakage. The fee is $7.00 per entry. All judging
will be done using glass tasters,
not plastic cups. Every flight will have at least one BJCP Recognized or
higher level judge.

Complete details and entry information for Hoppy Halloween
Challenge 2009 can be found on the competition website:
http://prairiehomebrewers.org/hoppyhalloween.htm

Do you have a beer, mead or cider exuding "Halloweeness"? Perhaps it's just
TOO spooky to serve up to your
friends let alone drink yourself? What about that forgotten six-pack
collecting cobwebs in the corner of the
basement? Well, we might just have the place for you to bury it! The crypt
is open! The competition's theme
beer category will be judged to BJCP style guidelines of the base beer, mead
or cider according to the
standard 50 point system PLUS the entry's adherence to the spirit of the
holiday will be assessed based upon
an additional 25 point "spook scale" (Name - 5, Appearance - 5, Aroma/Flavor
- 5, Overall Impression - 10)
so you should note that the name of the entry and any packaging, bottle
and/or label embellishments will be
factored into the final score. In short, the "classic" Halloween Theme Beer
should be GOOD and SCARY!

Those interested in judging can sign up online at:
http://www.prairiehomebrewers.org/hoppyhalloween.htm
Direct any questions regarding judging to judging at prairiehomebrewers.org or
hoppy at prairiehomebrewers.org

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5610, 09/21/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5609 (September 16, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5609 Wed 16 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
re: swing top and rousing yeast (SteveA)
RE:Swing top gaskets ("Mike Patient")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 06:54:28 -0400
From: SteveA <-s at roadrunner.com>
Subject: re: swing top and rousing yeast

> Rousing yeast... some yeast in primary/secondary can
> stall. By agitating the fermentor you can get the yeast
> back in suspension and release CO2. In the bottle you
> are getting the yeast back in suspension so they can
> work on the sugars that are there. Again, some yeast
> need to be roused, some don't.

I don't disagree with the method, but the explanation isn't quite
right. Brewing yeast flocculate in a controlled manner; when growth
conditions become absent the expression of flocculation genes cause cell
surface changes that in turn cause yeast cells to agglomerate - clump
together, and sediment and transition to a semi-dormant state where
fermentation proceeds at a very slow pace.. Adding back the growth
factor will reverse the cell changes and cause yeast to
'de-flocculate'. When shaking or stirring a fermenter we are changing
growth conditions, not re-suspending yeast. For example while stirring
an open fermenter CO2 is released and oxygen is included. The oxygen
products is a growth factor and dissolved CO2 is a growth inhibitor.

In a closed bottle fermenter we have an interesting problem. We expect
that during fermentation the dissolved CO2 level becomes higher than the
headspace concentration and slowly approaches equilibrium. Shaking a
bottle brings dissolved CO2 and the headspace CO2 concentrations into
equilibrium. The dissolved CO2 inhibits part of the pyruvate energy
pathway, but head pressure increases osmotic pressure and also is a
growth inhibitor. So does shaking (decreasing the dissolved CO2 and
increasing the head pressure) in a closed primed bottle help or hurt the
fermentation progress ?

Simple head pressure has a salutory effect on lager fermentation
byproducts around 0.5-1 bar by decreasing fusels and esters, but also
decreasing growth rate. At 4 bars of head pressure yeast growth is
halted and at 8 bars all fermentation is halted. The 1 or 1.5bar of
gauge pressure in a bottle certainly reduces growth. I wish I had
comparable good information wrt the inhibitory effects of dissolved CO2.

To make the topic more complex, the presence of sterols and specific
amino acids can dramatically improve the ability of yeast to tolerate
osmotic pressure (due to head pressure or solutes), so the commercial
practice of refermenting/bottle-fermenting with fresh yeast and a wort
kreusen is probably the gold standard. Using spent yeast and sugar
priming is the least desirable case. Having said that, most 12P beers
can be sugar primed on old yeast and bottle fermented w/o problems.
Above ~15P I think better bottle fermentation conditions should be
applied.

There is an old paradox related on this forum. Overfilled primed
bottles carbonate slowly and less completely while modestly underfiilled
bottle carbonate more rapidly. Attempts to eliminate headspace oxygen
as a factor have been made w/o impact. In these two cases, the same
amount of CO2 (same amount of sugars fermented) would result in the same
carbonation level and head pressure at equilibrium. One major
difference is that the similar surface area and dissimilar headspace
means overfilled bottled approach equilibrium faster. If this explains
the paradox, then perhaps the extra headpressure is more inhibiting of
fermentation than the dissolved CO2. If so, then any shaking of sealed
primed bottles may slow carbonation !

-S

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:59:43 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE:Swing top gaskets

Any idea on where I can find neoprene gaskets online?
I After looking into it a lot of people have had problems
with the cheap gaskets made out of some other rubber,
but the neoprene ones are what Grolsch uses and is agreement that they work
better.
The problem is no one lists what theirs are made of online.
Anyone have a good source?

Mike

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5609, 09/16/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5608 (September 15, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5608 Tue 15 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
re: swing top and rousing yeast (Glyn and Mary)
MALT Turkey Shoot 2009 (Jack Mowbray)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn and Mary <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: swing top and rousing yeast

Buy replacement rubber gasket at local homebrew store
or online. Pull off old, put on new.

Rousing yeast... some yeast in primary/secondary can
stall. By agitating the fermentor you can get the yeast
back in suspension and release CO2. In the bottle you
are getting the yeast back in suspension so they can
work on the sugars that are there. Again, some yeast
need to be roused, some don't.

Glyn
So. Middle TN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:31:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Mowbray <jmowbray at verizon.net>
Subject: MALT Turkey Shoot 2009

Maryland Ale and Lager Technicians (MALT) are pleased
to announce their 5th Annual Turkey Shoot* Homebrew
Competition. This is a BJCP-sanctioned event.

Cash prizes ($100.00, $50.00 and $25.00) will be awarded
for Best of Show, 2nd place and 3rd place overall. Sponsored
prize packages will be awarded to individual category winners.
Ribbons will be awarded to 1st, 2nd and 3rd place entries in
individual categories. As always, high quality feedback will be
provided on all entries.

The judging will be conducted on Sunday, November 15th at
Clipper City Brewing Company in Baltimore, MD. This
competition is for beer only - all BJCP beer categories will be
judged. The deadline for entries is November 7th.

Additional information, on-line entry info, drop off info, bottle
labels, etc., can be found on the MALT website:
http://www.maltclub.org.

As in the past, we welcome the participation of BJCP-
accredited judges. Anyone who is interested in helping with the
judging should contact:

Mike McMahon
fishandbrew at comcast.net

*no live birds will be harmed during this event

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5608, 09/15/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5607 (September 14, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5607 Mon 14 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
RE: Swing top bottles ("Mike Patient")
RE: flat beer ("Mike Patient")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:09:44 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: Swing top bottles

You mentioned taking off the gaskets and replacing them.
Can you describe how you do this.
I was just throwing away those bottles!

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:00:48 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: flat beer

"I picked up each bottle, inverted it twice, and put it back in the case.
Invariably (with the one exception) this has "woken up" the yeast,
which then proceeded to carbonate the beer adequately."

What exactly is going on there?
Can shaking/agitating the beer add more CO2?
While I agree the yeast on the bottom is dead/hibernating,
how can stirring them up awake them to produce more CO2?

The CO2 comes from the yeast still suspended in the beer when
coming in contact with priming sugars.
Can the yeast halt their fermentation (at a warm temp) only to continue when
"woken up"?
My understanding was that the agitation is releasing the CO2 from the
beer into the head space of the bottle, making it seem like there is more
CO2.
You get a bigger pop, but as for their being more CO2 in the beer I am
curious.

I have had a few beers that I've made that continually
released CO2 after it has been poured into a glass
(you can see bubbles coming from the bottom while the beer warms up).
This is what I am looking for when I want more CO2 from a beer.
Does anyone know what really happens to the yeast when it is agitated after
bottling?
Could the added dissolved oxygen be jumpstarting the fermenatation?

Mike

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5607, 09/14/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5606 (September 11, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5606 Fri 11 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Attenuation ("A. J. deLange")
Re: Attenuation (Kai Troester)
RE: Attenuation ("RJ")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:26:46 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Attenuation

Attenuation is intended to be a rough indicator of the amount of
specific gravity decrease over the course of a nominal fermentation with
the yeast strain in question. Formally it is ADF = 100 X (OE - AE)/OE
where ADF = "apparent degree of fermentation" (attenuation) in percent,
OE = "original extract" and AE = "apparent extract". OE and AE are in
grams of extract per 100 grams of beer i.e. extract concentration w/w
i.e. degrees Plato but in common usage, especially by homebrewers, they
are in specific gravity "points" (e.g. a wort with SG 1.040 has 40
points of OE). More meaningfull is the "real degree of fermentation" RDF
= 100*(OE - TE)/OE where TE is the "true extract" of the beer i.e. the
actual number of grams of extract in 100 grams of beer but measuring
that is appreciably more troublesome that just taking a hydrometer
reading on the fermented beer so few do it but you can estimate it from
RDF = 3.271 + 0.766*ADF.

I expect the answer to the question as to where the numbers on the
yeast specs come from is that the manufacturer does test fermentations
with nominal worts under nominal conditions for the particular strain
(ale yeasts would be operated at higher temperatures than lager yeasts)
and records the range of ADF's found. The ADF is going to depend on
several factors such as the composition of the wort (dextrinous worts
will not ferment to the same extent as highly fermentable ones i.e. ones
mashed to produce lots of fermentable sugars as opposed to the larger,
non fermentable ones), its OE, the presence of sufficient yeast
nutrients and enzyme co factors, the temperature at which the
fermentation is conducted, the pitching rate, the amount of oxygen
supplied and when it is supplied and the, ability of the yeast to
transport and lyse the various sugars available in a wort, the relative
amounts of those sugars, how the yeast behave with respect to
flocculation and their ability continue functioning as alcohol level
increased. There are lots of variables here and that is why the
manufacturer would have to pick some nominal set of conditions so that
the results compare based on the properties of the yeasts themselves,
(flocculation, alcohol tolerance...) and not on the conditions in the
lab. But naturally, for these data to be useful to the brewer, the test
conditions would have to be typical of the conditions found in the
brewer's fermenter.

All in all these numbers should be used only as a guide. If you prepare
a 1.050 wort and ferment it with a strain rated at 75 - 80% attenuation
you would expect that your final SG would fall in the range of 1.0100 -
1.0125. If it ends up at 1.020 then you would look for some cause
(insufficient pitching rate, mash temperature too high, insufficient
oxygen etc.) that might be responsible.

Final note: a saccharification rest at 148 F would be expected to
produce a more fermentable (higher attenuation) wort than one mashed at
say 154 F.

A. J.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:35:46 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Attenuation

Kevin,

> I find attenuation ratings on a yeast strain confusing and I'm hoping
> someone can explain it to me. Assuming the wort was mashed for a low
> attenuation (say mashed at 148F) and the starting gravity was 1066. A
> Munich Lager is used with an approx. attenuation rating of 75% (77% max). I
> would end up around 1016 as a FG right (assuming correct aeration, nutrients
> etc.)? But what determines this attenuation range on the package? Wouldn't
> the yeast keep going until the fermentables were gone or the alcohol got too
> high for the yeast? Why is it limited as per the strain rating?

The attenuation numbers listed with the yeast strain are pretty
useless and I wish they would not give them. Not only is there no
standard in determining them, they also heavily depend on wort
composition. I'd like yeast data that shows how good of an attenuator
a given yeast strain is and how close to the attenuation limit (i.e.
fermentability) of the produced wort a particular yeast will get in an
average fermentation.

Most of my thoughts about attenuation have been summarized in this
article which is intended to answer the questions that you have:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Attenuation

To illustrate the idea of the attenuation limit and that all yeasts
can reach is it I one fermented samples of the same wort with a lager
yeast (WY2206) and an English Ale yeast (WLP002) in fast ferment test
conditions. This means warm, high pitch rate and occasional agitation.
They both finished at the same gravity. This means that even an
English Ale yest can be a good attenuator. But we don't necessarily
want this to happen in our beers since the residual fermentable sugars
that this yeast leaves behind by giving up early contribute to the
character and balance of that style of beer.

Kai

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:08:49 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: Attenuation

Kevin,

Check out this web page at WhiteLabs
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_terms.html

Hope that helps

RJ

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5606, 09/11/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5605 (September 10, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5605 Thu 10 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
flat beer ("Spencer W. Thomas")
RE: Flat Beer (Thom Cannell)
Attenuation ("Kevin Weaver")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:39:09 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: flat beer

In 20 years of brewing I have never had to add yeast for bottling. And,
with one exception, I have never had beer that would not carbonate. It's
extremely improbable, at a homebrew level, to not have some live yeast
in your beer.

The few times I've had a problem with no apparent carbonation, I used
this trick: every day for 2 weeks, I picked up each bottle, inverted it
twice, and put it back in the case. Invariably (with the one exception)
this has "woken up" the yeast, which then proceeded to carbonate the
beer adequately.

The one exception was a huge barleywine, brewed to an OG of about 1.120.
I had a lot of trouble with getting sufficient attenuation, adding
yeast to the fermenter several times. That beer has remained flat for 8
years. But, since it's a big, syrupy monster, I don't care -- it works
nicely as "barley wine".

=Spencer in Ann Arbor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:54:24 -0400
From: Thom Cannell <Thom at CannellAndAssociates.com>
Subject: RE: Flat Beer

I had a similar occurrence several years ago; roused the yeast, shook
the bottles, did a hula dance with beads. Finally opened every bottle
and injected 10 cc of mixed yeast and sugar. That worked. I did spray
the bottles with acid sanitizer prior to opening and was very careful
of the swing tops and of course new crown caps. It worked.

Thom Cannell
Thom near CannellAndAssociates dot com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:37:31 -0400
From: "Kevin Weaver" <kweaver at brewmation.com>
Subject: Attenuation

I find attenuation ratings on a yeast strain confusing and I'm hoping
someone can explain it to me. Assuming the wort was mashed for a low
attenuation (say mashed at 148F) and the starting gravity was 1066. A
Munich Lager is used with an approx. attenuation rating of 75% (77% max). I
would end up around 1016 as a FG right (assuming correct aeration, nutrients
etc.)? But what determines this attenuation range on the package? Wouldn't
the yeast keep going until the fermentables were gone or the alcohol got too
high for the yeast? Why is it limited as per the strain rating?

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5605, 09/10/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5604 (September 09, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5604 Wed 09 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Darrell blew it! ("Brian Lundeen")
Swing top bottles (Glyn and Mary)
Flat beer follow up (Tom Puskar)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:13:59 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net>
Subject: Darrell blew it!

> Contents:
> Re: Flat Beer (Joel Wilson)
> flat beer ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
> Re: Flat Beer (Fred L Johnson)
> Re: Flat Beer (Glyn and Mary)
> Re: Flat beer (stencil)
> RE: Flat beer ("Mike Patient")
> RE: Flat Beer (Josh Knarr)
> RE: Flat Beer ("RJ")

Damn! For the first time in HBD history, we could have had an entire
contents menu of 8 identical responses, and Darrell "Gee I Have to be
Different" Leavitt has to go and muck with the default subject line. Way to
go, Darrell. Go sit in a corner and contemplate your bad with a Coors Light.

Aaaagh!!!

Bwian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 05:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn and Mary <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Swing top bottles

I bottled in swing top for 10+ years. The gaskets do
go bad. Whenever I opened a beer that was flatter
than average, I pulled the gasket off. Next time I
bottled I put on a new gasket. It was generally only
one or two per 10 gallon batch.

If you are going to bottle swing tops are the
best IMO. Visit a local German restaurant and
ask for their empties!

Glyn
So. Middle TN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:02:06 -0400
From: Tom Puskar <tpuskar at optonline.net>
Subject: Flat beer follow up

Thanks to everyone who responded to my previous post. Here's a summary of
some of the questions that were posed and what I believe to be my problem.

1. The Dubbel was fermented at basement temps here in NJ. The temp was
about close to 80F during the primary. I tried the wet t-shirt trick to
cool it down but it didn't drop too much below 76F
2. The heat wave subsided a bit and the secondary was closer to 75F during
the approximately two weeks.
3. The temp following bottling is low 70's--probably around 72-74F
4. As someone noted, I may have waited too long before racking to the
secondary. There wasn't much activity in the airlock when I racked. I was
planning to rack earlier but that darn job thing sent me on a trip for a few
days.
5. The beer settled to nearly crystal clear in the secondary--again it sat
a few days longer than I had planned. I'm gonna hafta do something about
this job thing. Its cramping my brewing style!
6. I purposely tried not to scoop up too much sediment from the secondary
when I racked to the bottling bucket and herein lies my problem--I think.
7. I boiled my caps for about 10 minutes but I've always done that and
unless some manufacturer changed the liner formulation I don't think that's
the problem.
8. I think I have enough corn sugar in the beer, its the yeast I'm
concerned about.
9. I tried rousting the yeast (there does seem to be some sediment in the
bottles) by inverting each bottle a few times. I'll do it again in a day or
so then check if I got better carbonation.

Bottom line is, aside from possibly being impatient, I think my yeast pooped
out. I probably was too zealous in trying to get a clear beer and racked to
the secondary too late and didn't scoop enough yeast from the secondary into
he bottling bucket.

The alcohol content (went from 1.07 to 1.01 may be contributing to making
the yeast a bit sluggish. When I used to make Trippels and while back, I
used to wash the sediment from the primary and add it back when bottling.
This probably would have worked here too.

I'll wait a few days and test both a Grolsch bottle and a regular long neck
and see if the rousing did any good. That's the part I like best--the
testing!

I'm toying with opening each bottle and adding some new yeast but I'm
concerned about potential contamination and will only do that if the rousing
and time don't work.

Thanks again to all who responded.

I'll report on any results in a week or two.

Tom in Howell, NJ

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5604, 09/09/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5603 (September 08, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5603 Tue 08 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Flat Beer (Joel Wilson)
flat beer ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
Re: Flat Beer (Fred L Johnson)
Re: Flat Beer (Glyn and Mary)
Re: Flat beer (stencil)
RE: Flat beer ("Mike Patient")
RE: Flat Beer (Josh Knarr)
RE: Flat Beer ("RJ")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:07:40 +1000
From: Joel Wilson <450shakey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flat Beer

Tom,

I have heard that overheating caps can compromise the seals and that
they should not be sanitized by boiling.
I am not sure if this is your problem, and it may be a brand specific
issue, but might be worth looking into.

If the swing tops come out ok then that would be further evidence
pointing to the caps also.

Cheers,
Joel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 06:27:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: flat beer

I would add a bit more corn sugar for bottling, then make sure that you do
siphon just a touch of yeast off of the bottom when trnasferring into the
bottling bucket. This may help.

You haven't said what the temperature was after bottling, and this may be
an issue too.

Let us all know the results.

Darrell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 07:38:03 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Flat Beer

Tom has two beers that haven't carbonated in the bottle after several
weeks.

It sounds like you just proved to yourself (and again to me) that some
things you read in the homebrewing literature or hear in homebrewing
forums aren't universally true. In this case it is the idea that there
are ALWAYS plenty of yeast in suspension to bottle condition the beer.

The IPA that has been in the bottle for six weeks probably needs some
fresh yeast. I'm not so sure about the Belgian Dubbel. You might want
to wait another week on this one as it sounds like some carbonation is
being produced. (I'm assuming you are keeping these bottles at a
temperature of least 65 degrees F.)

It wasn't clear which beer you were describing as being the primary
for 10 days and in a secondary for two weeks. In my experience, an
extended sit in the secondary yields a beer that is always deficient
in yeast and that will need a yeast boost at bottling.

I would recommend adding to each bottle about 1 million cells per mL
or about 355 million cells per 12 oz. bottle.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 05:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn and Mary <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flat Beer

Personally I would not boil the caps. Yes I did it as a newbie, and it
didn't hurt. But why chance it. If you want to sanitize caps, use
something else, idphore(sp), starsan, etc.

With that being said what temperature are the bottles at? Did you
try rousing the yeast?

Glyn
So. Middle TN

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:18:19 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Flat beer

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 23:23:43 -0400,
in Homebrew Digest #5602 (September 07, 2009)
you wrote:

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:31:45 -0400
>From: Tom Puskar <tpuskar at optonline.net>
>Subject: Flat beer
>
> When I racked
>it to the bottling bucket it was crystal clear and tastes great--but its
>flat! I hear a bit of a "pfft" when I open it but no detectable
>carbonation.
>

Flat - or just not making a head? If you drop it forcibly into a
pilsener or other tall glass, do you get any foam at all? If you
slide it smoothly into such a glass, chilled, and then warm it, can
you see bubbles ascending? Finally, is there any yeast cake at the
bottom of each bottle?
If it does turn out that the problem is one of headlessness, there
might be contamination by residual cleanser in the fermenter or
bottling bucket. Or, excessive protein degredation in a
low-temperature mash. Is it possible your mash thermometer is
reading high, or that there may have been too slow a ramp-up to
saccharification temps, or that faulty stirring might have left you
reading the temp of a local hot pocket?

If you have access to some FermTabs or Cooper's Drops, try doping a
couple of the Grolsch bottles to about 50-75% more carbonation than
you originally estimated.

Sometimes debugging is as much fun as recipe formulation.

gds, stencil

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:34:45 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: Flat beer

I've been having a similar problem lately, but rather than no carbonation,
I get some that are and some that aren't. I've been reading a lot about it
lately and for me,
I think it is my bottles. I also use Grolsh bottles,
but I think a few of the stoppers don't work properly.
I am starting to tag them to see if it's the problem or not.
When reading I found that a lot of the cases of low/no carbonation
is due to a lack of healthy yeast to ferment during bottling.
When racking to secondary, it is important that you rack towards the end of
the primary, NOT after.
A good measure is the amount of bubbling going on in the airlock,
I've started to rack when it gets to 4-5 bubbles a minute.
This is approximate, but it lets you know the yeast is still alive and
fermenting.
If you rack to late, you aren't really doing a secondary fermentation,
you are just clearing the beer. Making a 'dubbel',
I can see why you want to give it as much time in the primary fermentor,
but racking to the secondary isn't for after primary, it's to separate the
live yeast from the trub.

It would be nice to know how the Grolsh bottles you have did.
Anyone else having Grolsh bottle problems??

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:11:37 -0400
From: Josh Knarr <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Flat Beer

Tom,

For whatever strange reason whenever I've done a high gravity beer,
it's taken it quite a bit of time to carbonate. Last one I did in the
1.090 range took four weeks before we have a bottle with a fizz.

One of the tricks I found is that if you're making an ale on the
cooler side or you're leaving it in the fermenter or you have a very
good hot or cold break - try to get some yeast back in suspension at
bottling time. This doesn't mean shake the carboy, but try to suck a
bit of the stuff on top of the cake up along with the unprimed beer.
Get that in suspension and then toss in the sugar. If you're totally
anal about not sucking any yeast up, you may really have gotten some
extremely clean bottles and have very little yeast in suspension.

If you've fermented things out to being very dry, you may also have
hit the tolerance of the yeast for alcohol and the little bugs are
dead. This is why the Belgians often ferment with one yeast and bottle
with another - the original yeast is passed on, no more, ceased to be,
expired and gone to meet it's maker, become a stiff, befrit of life
and rests in peace.

Hope I've helped,
Josh

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:25:01 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: Flat Beer

Gee Tom,

You mention everything but the temp that your carbonating at.

You should let it carbonate about 10F warmer than fermantation.

RJ

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5603, 09/08/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5602 (September 07, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5602 Mon 07 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Flat beer (Tom Puskar)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:31:45 -0400
From: Tom Puskar <tpuskar at optonline.net>
Subject: Flat beer

I've been having a round of flat beers and can't figure out why. My latest
is a Belgian Dubbel which doesn't seem to be carbonating. Its been in the
bottle for 2 weeks. Am I being impatient?

The one before that was an IPA sort of beer and it is flat too. Its been in
the bottle for about 6 weeks. The fermentation on this one was a bit
strange and it may never carbonate but the Dubbel went perfect.

The starting OG was about 1.07 and it finished at about 101. It spent about
10 days in the primary and about two weeks in the secondary. When I racked
it to the bottling bucket it was crystal clear and tastes great--but its
flat! I hear a bit of a "pfft" when I open it but no detectable
carbonation.

I boil my bottle caps and use a bench type capper. I prime with a packet (5
oz) of corn sugar which I also boiled and cooled before adding it to the
bottling bucket. I sanitize my bottles with bleach and rinse thoroughly so
I don't think residual bleach is the problem I bottled a few bottles in
Grolsch bottles to see if maybe I'm being too hard on the stoppers and
haven't opened it yet.

I'm not a novice and have successfully brewed close to 50 batches over the
past 12 years. I did take a break for a few years as I worked out a medical
issue and just started brewing again about 18 months ago. Have I forgotten
something obvious?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Tom in Howell, NJ

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5602, 09/07/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5601 (September 04, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5601 Fri 04 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
RE: Flavor Hops ("RJ")
"Aroma" vs "Flavor" hops ("Spencer W. Thomas")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 06:11:52 -0400
From: "RJ" <wortsup at metrocast.net>
Subject: RE: Flavor Hops

Matt in Oregon writes:
What the heck are "flavor hops", anyway?

Well Matt - all this really means is what point the hops are put into the
kettle...

Bittering extracts best at 45+ min of Boil (some flavor, little aroma)

Fuller flavors between 15 and 45 min (some bittering and some aroma)
more/less depending on time factor

Aroma scents between 0 and 15 min (virutually no bittering, some flavor)

FWH (1st Wort Hops) added well before the kettle boils tends to add a
"higher" flavor note vs bittering,
even though they are there for the full boil.

Dry Hoping adds flavor and aroma, but the extraction here is by dissolution
by the alcohol rather than boiling
liquid extraction.

I've heard that some brewers add hops to the lauter tun - I can only assume
(since I have no direct experience, that)
this is similar to FWH is extraction profile.

Also, you'll find that although all hops could be used for flavor, generally
the noble &/or milder
profile hops are best used for this.

Happy Brewing!
Olde Phenomian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:56:03 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: "Aroma" vs "Flavor" hops

There are lots of different components in hops that produce aroma and
flavor. Yes, except for the basic "tastes", these are all detected by
our noses. Why, then, do we call some "aroma" and some "flavor"?

As I understand it, the difference is in whether a particular aromatic
compound is released into the air in detectable amounts, or whether it
requires the warmth of our mouth to cause it to be released. Thus,
volatile aromatic compounds (those that go into the air in significant
amounts at the beer and air temperature) are considered part of the
"aroma", while others that are only volatized in our mouths are
considered part of the "flavor."

Boiling tends to drive off the volatile "aroma" compounds more rapidly
than the non-volatile "flavor" compounds. This is where the distinction
comes in.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5601, 09/04/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5600 (September 03, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5600 Thu 03 September 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Does dry hopping add flavor? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] ("Williams, Rowan")
fresh hops (Chris Williams)
RE: Does dry hopping add flavor? (Matt Wallace)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:37:54 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Does dry hopping add flavor? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Hi Jim,
Dry hopping certainly does add flavour. IMO, certain hops are better suited to this task than others.

A favourite dry hop I like to use in my APA's is Simcoe. I use large sanitised stainless steel teaballs / herb holders and drop them in the keg with the desired quantity of dry hops when I keg the beer to give me a fresh hop flavour hit. More a "depthcharge" than a "torpedo" to pinch a Sierra Nevada phrase!!

I find this an easy way to make use of my home grown hops - no need to try to guess their bittering potential when you use them for flavouring and aroma!

Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club, Australia

[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)
- ----------------------------------------------------
If you have received this transmission in error please
notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all
copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent
to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver
of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect
of information in the e-mail or attachments.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:03:00 -0700
From: Chris Williams <chwilliams at gmail.com>
Subject: fresh hops

couple of things to share... first, found this at
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14949

"""
Hop Harvest is well under way, unfortunately the "long" market
conditions for Willamettes and the fair yield puts us in a unique
position. We have picked all the Willamette's we need to fulfill our
obligations but still have 30 acres on trellis. We have decided to
offer these fresh hops to Brewers in our area.

That's Right, Fresh Hops, No Charge, You Pick.

For details contact
Roy Farms
Moxee, WA
509-452-3494
"""

second, picked up some fresh Cascade from Hop Union in Yakima today,
they're selling directly to homebrewers and they said they'll have
more varieties next week. they're _really_ wet

Disclaimer: i'm not associated with either of these organizations in
any way, shape, or form, just a Northwest homebrewer with a itch for
fresh hops :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:28:27 -0700
From: Matt Wallace <dubious.chewy at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Does dry hopping add flavor?

We've got 5 tastes: salty, sweet, sour, savory/umami, and most
important for this discussion, bitter. It's my understanding that
everything else is. in fact, aroma. Flavor=taste+aromatics. So,
yeah, dry hops add flavor, because they change the taste+aromatics
equation. But, I don't think they add much in the way of bitterness.
(Here's where my expertise ends, though. It's my very limited
understanding that the various hop acids need to be isomerized to add
bitterness, and that doesn't really happen sitting around in beer at
room/fridge temp)

Ok, so this raises a question I've had in the back of my mind for a
bit. What the heck are "flavor hops", anyway? So many recipes call
for a 15 minute "flavor hop" addition. Is it anyone's experience that
you actually get a different/improved character from this practice, vs
more hops at the start of the boil and more hops at flameout or in
secondary? Undoubtedly, this question has been hashed out on the HBD
before, but I wonder if there's some fun in having the discussion.

Matt in Oregon

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5600, 09/03/09
*************************************
-------