Homebrew Digest #5597 (August 31, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5597 Mon 31 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

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***************************************************************

Contents:
Does dry hopping add flavor? (Jim D)
Opinion on yeast? (Josh Knarr)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:48:52 -0500
From: Jim D <goswell at hotmail.com>
Subject: Does dry hopping add flavor?

You always here how dry hopping a beer will add a wonderful aroma to the
finished product but it's never mention whether or not it will add any
flavor. I love a nice pale ale with very strong hop flavor but since I
brew for myself and not competitions I'm not really concerned with the
aroma. I'm wondering if I can skip the costs and hassles of dry hopping
without sacrificing that nice hop flavor. So I guess the question is do
you need to isomerize the hops in boiling wort to extract the flavor?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:32:07 -0400
From: Josh Knarr <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: Opinion on yeast?

Hello, Great and Powerful HBD, repository of knowledge of the beer gnostics!

I finally got a house. In my basement there's a chest freezer which I
told my wife was "for meat". I have one of those thermal probes on
order from NB and their boch lager kit (Item No: U1360).

Their instructions, unfortunately, are lacking:
http://legacy.northernbrewer.com/docs/kis-html/1361.html

A few questions:
I opted for Saflager S-23 and passed on Wyeast #2206 Bavarian Lager
Yeast. With no previous experience with either of these, I'm not sure
if this was the best idea. Anyone have opinions?

Fermentation temp for lagering - start out at room temp for a week
then put it in the freezer? Drop the temp to "as low as it will go"?
The Palmer Book suggests fermenting at 45F to 55F for three weeks then
coming up to whatever temp is listed as optimal. Am I reading this
correctly?
(http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-4.html) I'm uncomfortable
since the Palmer book uses the 45F to 55F consistently to lager while
the Saflager packet has a much higher range on it.

Lager brewers, input is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Josh

- --

Jonathan Swift - "May you live every day of your life."

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5597, 08/31/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5596 (August 30, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5596 Sun 30 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

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***************************************************************

Contents:
Dry Hopping with Fresh Hops (Mark Prior)
Cocoa Liquor/Paste? (Alexandre Enkerli)
RO Water and Salts ("Keith Christian")

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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:20:09 -0400
From: Mark Prior <priorm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Dry Hopping with Fresh Hops

Last week I brewed an American IPA with freshly picked
Cascade hops. I plan to pick some more and dry hop
with them.

Typically, I add hops directly to the keg in a hop bag
or a tea ball. I don't remove the hops and they remain
in the keg as the beer is consumed. I don't feel that
I get excessive grassiness from this method, at least
when using Cascade hops.

However, all of my experience is with dried hops. Does
anyone have any experience with dry "wet" hopping? Does
dry hopping with freshly picked hops impart a particularly
grassy flavor or aroma (or any other flavors or aromas)?
What quantity and variety did you use? What was your
experience?

Thanks for your insights,
Mark Prior

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:47:55 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Cocoa Liquor/Paste?

Has anybody brewed with cocoa liquor or cocoa paste? A friend who
roasts chocolate at home read a blogpost of mine about beer
experiments and may be able to get me some cocoa liquor. It includes
some cocoa butter, which is a potential issue in terms of head
retention, but I'm really not that worried about that, as long as I
can have fun in the process and, hopefully, get something tasty.
Because of the characteristics of the cocoa varietal I might use and
because I'm something of a sourhead, these days, I'm thinking about
doing a cocoa-based Oud Bruin with at least some of the cocoa liquor.
I might also add some homeroasted coffee and use oak chips in the
fermenter.
Have you ever used cocoa liquor? If so, how did you use it?

Cheers!

- --
Ale-X in Laval, Qc
ARC [888km, 62.5]
http://enkerli.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:34:51 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <keithchristian at roadrunner.com>
Subject: RO Water and Salts

Hi,

I have been struggling for a few years since I moved into my new house
to brew good beers. The mash does not give me very good efficiency, hop
utilization is low, and the beers are usually taking a few months to
clear. I am pretty sure it is my water. I have been brewing off and on
for 20 years and the beers are suffering. In turn, I am brewing less.

My water is really bad here in Anaheim CA so I use RO water. Some beers
come out OK with RO water but they take a long time to clear. I have
tried blending water from my tap with the RO water and that has been hit
and miss.

What I would like to do is put together the salts that would help me
make a few decent styles. Promash has a calculator that looks like it
will give me what I want. For now, I'd be happy brewing IPAs, stout,
and occasional pilsner. Can I assume that the RO water has 0 of each of
the salts to get me in the ball park? I know the RO unit does not
completely strip the water.

Once I get the amounts of salts to use together, is there a recommended
method of introducing them to the RO water? I recall a discussion in
the past about using CO2 to dissolve the salts.

I'd be interested in any suggestions or salt combinations that work well
for IPAs and stout.

Thanks,

Keith

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5596, 08/30/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5595 (August 17, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5595 Mon 17 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

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***************************************************************

Contents:
Capping on Foam/Tubing ("A. J. deLange")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
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NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:38:44 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Capping on Foam/Tubing

In a commercial filler the foam is generated by shooting a jet of water
into the neck of the bottle and I suppose one could do that. What I have
always done is rap the bottle on the side a couple of times with the
handle of a screwdriver held by the blade. Sometimes the beer doesn't
seem to want to cooperate so remember that it isn't necessary to get
foam up to the lip. Any amount of foam in which the bubbles are bursting
is releasing CO2 into the neck of the bottles and filling the space with
CO2 from the bottom up.

I was just at the hardware store the other day looking for a short
length of high temperature tubing (to use with an under-sink hot water
generator). All they had was the vinyl stuff and each box was clearly
labeled indicating that the max. temp was 175 and the max pressure at
that temp (which I don't remember) was also given. For high temperature
tubing I usually go to McMaster Carr which has a wide assortment all of
which have 3 things in common: 1) They will handle high temperatures
2)They are OK for food and 3) They are expensive. For short runs the
last won't put you in the poor house (especially for the 6" piece I
needed but it's too much trouble to put in an order for that).

A.J.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5595, 08/17/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5594 (August 16, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5594 Sun 16 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
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***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Reinforced Vinyl Tubing (Mark Prior) (Mark Prior)
Re: Capping on Foam (stencil)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:21:08 -0400
From: Mark Prior <priorm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Reinforced Vinyl Tubing (Mark Prior)

FYI - I was unable to find an answer to my question, so I ended up
contacting the manufacturer directly.

According to the manufacturer, the tubing I use is rated for use up to
175F. It is not recommended for use above this temperature due to
concerns relative to bursting. There are no health concerns or FDA
food-grade issues when the tubing is used at near boiling temperatures
(212F).

I have used this type of tubing for around 10 years at near boiling
temperatures and low pressure (March pump). During that time, I have
never had an issue with bursting.

Mark Prior

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:28:36 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Capping on Foam

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:15:16 -0400,
in Homebrew Digest #5593 (August 14, 2009)
Fred L Johnson wrote:
>------------------------------
>
>how does one easily generate
>the foam when capping of foam at bottling from a fermenter or from a
>bottling vessel (not a pressurized keg). Does anyone out there have a
>technique that is tried and true?
>
For the last two years I've been using a Blichmann Beer Gun
in a straight bottle-filler (non-counterpressure) mode. As
the level rises into the neck of the bottle you withdraw the
gun until the muzzle is just at the surface, give the
trigger a quick blip, and get a nice little packet of foam.

You can effect a crude approximation of the BBG by using a
replacement compression-fitting undersink rigid supply line
from the hardware store. The flare at the end of the plated
brass tube is kinda sorta like the trumpet bell of the BBG.
It's what I used for several months after first reading
about the Beer Gun, until I had some cash freed up. The
upper end of a keg dip tube is similar, but pricey. You
still have to rig some sort of valve, or resort to the
kink-the-tube maneuver, but you're ahead by about $40.

gds, stencil

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5594, 08/16/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5593 (August 14, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5593 Fri 14 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
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FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

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PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
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amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Beer in Space - the thread that will not die ! (stevea)
Capping on Foam (Fred L Johnson)
more valves (Matt)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

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LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:38:57 -0400
From: stevea <steve-alexander at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Beer in Space - the thread that will not die !

I was pleased to see our old HBD beer in space thread has been picked up
by ABC News of Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/13/2654932.htm

The long lost Andy Walsh, a onetime HBD prolific poster, is the central
character here ....

> The hunt for beer in space
>
> By News Online's Sarah Collerton
> Posted Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:24pm AEST
> Updated Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:29pm AEST
>
> Australians pride themselves on drinking beer just about anywhere and
> for any occasion - but what about in space?
> A Queensland astrochemist believes beer and the cosmos are more
> closely linked than we would have first thought.
> James Cook University's Centre for Astronomy director, Dr Andrew Walsh
> [...]

thus answering the question, "What has become of Arnold Chickenshortz ?".

-S

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:03:35 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Capping on Foam

I know this sounds a little silly, but how does one easily generate
the foam when capping of foam at bottling from a fermenter or from a
bottling vessel (not a pressurized keg). Does anyone out there have a
technique that is tried and true?

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: more valves

Mike suggested machining a three piece ball valve and silver
soldering in a ferrule. As a matter of fact McMaster-Carr has
3-piece ball valves that take a socket weld for about the same
price as NPT threaded, so that's an option if I can really do
a decent sanitary silver solder job. What also caught my eye
was a three piece valve with female BSPP (straight) threads.
I believe these are designed for repeated (dis)connection and
with the right fittings/washers should provide a tight,
sanitary, reusable seal--however "the right fittings" are real
hard to find...

Thanks Mike, and to everyone who privately suggested that
stainless NPT fittings should be just fine for continuous
use if I'm careful and use a lot of tape. That might at
least be an easy short term solution, maybe even using a
softer material for the fittings.

Matt

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5593, 08/14/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5592 (August 12, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5592 Wed 12 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

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Contents:
Re: cleanable valves ("Mike Sharp")

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:39:39 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cleanable valves

Matt asks for valve help...

Some years ago I worked for a company that manufactures ultra high purity
gas purification equipment. I used tri-clamp fittings everywhere for gas
distribution (upstream of the purifier) and for all the UHP cleaning
connections.

You can machine a three piece ball valve with NPT ends so that it becomes a
"sweat solder" fitting, and then silver solder a regular tri-clamp ferrule
in. Depending on the tube size, the outer part of the threads might still
be showing, but as long as you get a smooth surface on the inner end, you'll
be fine. The solder wicks through, and fills the gap at the inner end of the
ferrule, if you do it right. I also have several 1/2 and 3/4 inch tri-clamp
valves I've bought from ebay, which is a heck of a lot easier than building.
The easiest to clean are the butterfly valves, but ball valves work too.
Frankly, I'm not so sure you'll have to actually disassemble the valve to
clean it, if you recirculate cleaning and sanitizing solution while cycling
the valve a bunch of times.

I've also used a valve with compression fittings on 1 inch ferrules before,
which worked well. I made tons of these.

For bottling, these should probably be dismantled after use, since there is
a small gap in the valve body where the ferrule meets. You can use a Delrin
or Teflon compression ring, which is removable. I imagine you can find
smaller ones that will work on the 1/2 or 3/4 inch tri-clamp ferrules.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5592, 08/12/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5591 (August 11, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5591 Tue 11 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

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***************************************************************

Contents:
valve help (Matt)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
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and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:42:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: valve help

I'm trying to build a nice bottle filling machine, and having
trouble finding the right ON/OFF flow valve for this purpose.
(BTW the beer won't be carbonated when I fill it.)

The main thing is that this valve must be able to be cleaned
well after every use. Pinch valves are ideal from this
standpoint, but my machine uses vacuum to move the beer and
hence requires rather stout hoses that probably can't be
effectively pinched.

The Blichmann 3-piece ball valve springs to mind since it
can be totally disassembled for cleaning. But it has NPT
connections and I think these would have to be unmated and
cleaned after every use as well. Is that really feasible
long term, i.e. can I mate and demate stainless steel NPT
fittings over and over and still achieve a reliable seal?
(And if not, then what in the world is the purpose of a
highly cleanable bolted-body ball valve when it's saddled
with NPT connections?) The seal has to be good, because of
course air bubbles can ruin the beer almost as quickly and
effectively as infection.

I'd love for the valve to have hose barb ends, but any
straight threads that seal against a rubber washer (garden
hose, flare, etc) would work I think. The problem is finding
a "cleanable" valve with these fittings.

So far the only reasonable ideas I have are to convert a
Perlick tap for this purpose, or to shell out $75 for a
3-piece Blichmann-like ball valve with triclamp fittings
from McMaster-Carr. Can anyone suggest other ideas? I do
have access to a good lathe, and milling machine.

Matt

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5591, 08/11/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5590 (August 06, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5590 Thu 06 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
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***************************************************************

Contents:
RE: Yeast Patents ("Mike Sharp")
Re: Yeast Patents (donniestyle)
Yeast and Biopiracy (Alexandre Enkerli)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
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As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:56:21 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yeast Patents

Alexandre Enkerli posts about: Patenting Yeast Strains?

There are plenty of patents on Yeast strains, going back to 1873 when Louis
Pasteur was awarded US Patent 141072. He made the claim of "yeast, free of
organic germs of disease, as a living organism." Even in this early case,
Pasteur was using the yeast to make beer.

Some of the more recent examples of yeast patents make claims to be
genetically engineered, but some, such as US Patent 5543161 don't appear to
state how the strain was produced. For a plant patent it might matter, but
I don't think that's the case for a Utility patent. In any case, Diamond v.
Chakrabarty in 1980 confirmed that living organisms can be patented.

What's interesting about this particular case is how he seems to be making
the claims. I've examined a few yeast patents, and it seems like for the
most part their claims are based on identifying the strain via its
properties, not by its gene sequence. The exceptions are the genetically
modified yeast strains, but even they don't present a complete sequence,
just the genes responsible for the effect the patent is trying to protect.
See, for example, US Patent 6117649.

I'm wondering if gene sequences are *ever* used for identifying a particular
strain for IP purposes, and if so, how far off do you have to be to be
unique (and therefore able to patent the new strain)? It seems like a minor
mutation would remove any patent claims on the new strain, if it was based
solely on gene sequence, even though it might have the same essential
properties. But when the applicant makes claims on the properties,
presumably well enough to uniquely classify it, then they have a broader
grip on the strain.

As far as using a plant patent, I'm not sure how anyone can argue yeast is a
plant...According to the USPTO:

Plant Patent
Issued for a new and distinct, invented
or discovered asexually reproduced plant including
cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found
seedlings, other than a tuber propagated plant or a
plant found in an uncultivated state, it permits its
owner to exclude others from making, using, or selling
the plant for a period of up to twenty years from the
date of patent application filing. Plant patents
are not subject to the payment of maintenance fees.

I read that to mean a "discovered" plant cannot be patented, because it must
be cultivated. Yet I see yeast patents have been issued. I don't think
what Cano discovered could be considered a "newly found seedling".

The courts have also said that a plant found in the wild is not patentable,
so in Cano's case, I'm suspicious of the patentability. On the other hand,
there is that Louis Pasteur patent...

Recently India passed a law allowing microorganisms to be patented, but
there is still some discussion about what a microorganism really is, as it
relates to IP law.

More information can be found here:

http://www.moffitt.org/Site.aspx?spid=4E99107C06964E94A987F7D8BB8D48B4

Regards,
Mike Sharp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:20:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: donniestyle at directlink.net
Subject: Re: Yeast Patents

Not an authority, but it seems as a home brewer, one can do as they wish
with the yeast purchased in a bottle of beer. Now that you point out the
yeast is there, I think there will be a number of home brewers doing so.
Where can I get some of that brew? ;^)

Don

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:22:35 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Yeast and Biopiracy

Darrell, just across the border in Plattsburgh, gives us a reference
on biopiracy.
Thanks for that reference!

Actually, biopiracy was on my mind as I was reading the Wired piece
about Cano. I watched the following French documentary 2.5 years ago
and it brought home several points about the issues surrounding
patents, copyright, and trademark on living organisms:
http://is.gd/25705

We had a discussion about this through our brewclub's mailing-list and
our club's resident dairy farmer was telling us about some of those
issues from his perspective (he's now moved to a fully organic
production, AFAIK). Like Monsanto's control on how some crops may be
used because they had engineered the GM seeds.
Fascinating stuff.

Patents on yeast strains may seem like a relatively trivial matter, by
comparison to the most problematic cases of biopiracy. But yeast is
also tremendously important and it's as good as any topic for a
discussion of openness in experimentation and research.
What troubles me personally about Cano's protection of that yeast
strain isn't that, for 20 years, other craft breweries won't be able
to release beer fermented with it. It's the restriction on yeast
culturing and experimentation. In other words, it's not about Dogfish
Head having access to this strain to brew an Amber Ale. It's about Raj
Apte and Peter Tonsmeire playing with it. It's about the precedent
that can be set. It's about the disconnect between lobby groups like
WIPO and regular folks like us.
Not that it's the end of the world. But this is an issue which
deserves much more consideration than it's getting. Who knows, it
might be a significant factor in finding solutions to the current
ecological crisis.

Ale-X in Laval
ARC [888km, 62.5]
http://blog.informalethnographer.com/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5590, 08/06/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5589 (August 05, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5589 Wed 05 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
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***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Patenting Yeast Strains? (stencil)
Re: Popcorn (stencil)
RE: beer and calories ("Brian Lundeen")
Yeast Patents (Alexandre Enkerli)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:41:39 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Patenting Yeast Strains?

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:27:33 -0400,
in Homebrew Digest #5588 (August 04, 2009)
Alexandre Enkerli wrote:

>
>Can he get a patent on this strain? If so, what does it mean for the
>brewing industry?
>
If Juan Cano can get a patent on the yeast he extracted from
fossil amber, then probably the descendants of Herman Frasch
and Cyrus McCormick should apply for retroactive patents on
sulfur and wheat. IANAL but it seems to me that what
Franklin and the other Framers had in mind was encouraging
the creation of *processes,* not of products. If Cano had
devised new and unique procedures for separating the
encapsulated cells from the amber (which I doubt) then those
probably should be patentable. But if he simply applied
established techniques (however laborious and demanding the
procedures may have been) then, sorry Juan, no doughnut.

gds, stencil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:30:23 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Popcorn

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:27:33 -0400,
in Homebrew Digest #5588 (August 04, 2009)
Alan Semok wrote:

>Popcorn works quite well for beer...I've used it a number of times
>for one of my Pale Ale formulas, and it's a great contribution.
>Go for it.

This is good to hear. Was the flavor of the finished beer
distinctively 'popcorn!' or was it just - different?
Do you recall the amounts you used? A pound of popped corn
occupies 3 gallons, apparently; I was considering buying a
2-pound sack from a theater-concession supplier, grinding
it, and then doing a separate cereal mash with some six-row.
Producing this volume with a consumer-grade hot-air popper
seems like a chore, but obviously would be much more
economical.

>Just don't pop in oil.

Still I wonder if the mash wouldn't filter out, and the boil
emulsify, most of the fat. And what got through to the
fermenter could conceivably be mistaken for olive oil and
eaten (sorry.)

gds, stencil

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:51:12 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net>
Subject: RE: beer and calories

>
> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:40:31 -0400
> From: bill keiser <bk2 at sharpstick.org>
> Subject: beer and calories
>
> In the interest of not developing (or reversing) a beer gut,
> I am looking for information on the specs on beers. And some
> recipes or means of modifying existing ones that are not as
> fattening, but still palatable.

Hi Bill,

I would just like to cast my vote here for leaving the recipes alone and
taking up serious exercise as a means to counter these calories. A few years
ago, my weight, blood pressure and cholesterol levels were all in the yellow
zone, and I'm certain heading for the red. I decided, enough is enough, and
made a commitment to exercise regularly. I now run the equivalent of a
marathon each week, and all of those factors have normalized. Best part is,
I can eat and drink to my hearts content, and I'm certainly not shy about
including lots of carbs and fats in my diet. Those are staples I couldn't
live without. OK, I could exist, but not live. Now, how much exercise you
need will depend on how much it takes to make your heart content, so to
speak, and of course, your genetics. Still, I never think "dieting" in
whatever form is the way to go in the long run, because I don't think most
people will find denial of things they really enjoy sustainable. Work your
butt off. Literally. By whatever means of exercise you can find enjoyable,
or at least, tolerable. All it takes is a commitment of a few hours a week.

Cheers
Brian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:37:49 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Patents

Mike Sharp posts an edifying summary on yeast patents. Shows how naive I was.

Interesting passage in the document Mike posted:
"compositions or compounds isolated from nature are also patentable.
For example, Louis Pasteur received a U.S. patent 141,072 in 1873
claiming "yeast, free from organic germs of disease."

The strange thing is, I don't seem to be alone in being surprised that
yeast should be patentable. Sounds like there hasn't been a
generalized discussion of these issues, maybe because patents tend to
belong to spheres of specialization.

An advantage of the patent system, is that they expire after a
relatively short amount of time (in the USPTO case, 20 years if filed
since 1995). Let's hope lobby groups like WIPO won't Bono Act them to
the equivalent of a perpetual patent.

Ale-X in Laval
ARC [888km, 62.5]
http://blog.informalethnographer.com/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5589, 08/05/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5588 (August 04, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5588 Tue 04 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
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***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Popcorn (Alan Semok)
beer and calories (bill keiser)
Patenting Yeast Strains? (Alexandre Enkerli)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:28:07 -0400
From: Alan Semok <asemok at mac.com>
Subject: Re: Popcorn

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:00:37 -0400, stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
wrote:

> Is there any experience with the use of popcorn, in pound
> quantities, as the maize contribution in a CAP or CACA?
> Does the flavor carry over into the finished brew?
> Could I achieve the same flavor effects by toasting grits?
> Are the popping oils successfully trapped by the grain bed
> during the sparge?

Use a hot air popper (not popping oil) and you are good to go.
Popcorn works quite well for beer...I've used it a number of times
for one of my Pale Ale formulas, and it's a great contribution.
Go for it.
Just don't pop in oil.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:40:31 -0400
From: bill keiser <bk2 at sharpstick.org>
Subject: beer and calories

In the interest of not developing (or reversing) a beer gut, I am
looking for information on the specs on beers. And some recipes or means
of modifying existing ones that are not as fattening, but still palatable.
When calories are stated for beer and wines, does that include the
caloric value of the alcohol itself, or just the sugars in it? If the
former, are alcohol calories fattening?
bill keiser

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:21:49 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Patenting Yeast Strains?

This Wired piece on reviving yeast from old amber has made it to our
brewclub mailing-list:
http://is.gd/22dPT

An interesting passage:
' Cano is delighted with the burgeoning success of Fossil Fuels ale.
It'll earn him a little bit of money, and every pint or bottle sold
could kick off a conversation about his momentous discovery 14 years
ago. His only worry is that the unfiltered nature of this beer means
that some of his yeast will invariably settle to the bottom of the
glass or bottle, and an unscrupulous brewer could collect that and use
it in another beer. The microbiologist has applied for a patent on his
strains and has sequenced the genomes so he can tell if someone else
has stolen it. "I am the keeper of the family jewels," Cano says. He
isn't about to let them fall into the wrong hands.'

Can he get a patent on this strain? If so, what does it mean for the
brewing industry?

In the past, I asked a seemingly naive question about protection of
yeast strains through legal measures. I seem to remember it was during
a "fortnight of yeast" but the only thing I can find in the archives
is a general question about legal issues surrounding yeast (in #4468).

If someone has information about the application of patent law (or any
other "intellectual property" law) with regards to yeast strains, I'd
be interested.

Cheers!

Ale-X in Laval
ARC [888km, 62.5]
http://blog.informalethnographer.com/

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5588, 08/04/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5587 (August 03, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5587 Mon 03 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
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Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
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DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
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FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
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or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
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tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
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***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: carbonation-temperature-pressure formula ("Kai Troester")
Reinforced Vinyl Tubing (Mark Prior)
Popcorn (stencil)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
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As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 00:23:50 -0400
From: "Kai Troester" <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: carbonation-temperature-pressure formula

> When I sat down at my machine to
> have a look at this I found an e-mail from Fred with a formula using
> just such an approach that he had found on Kai's site (www.braumeister.com
> ).

The place A.J. was refering to was www.braukaiser.com which is a play on my
user name on home brewing forums (Kaiser). The credit for the formula goes
to hobbybrauer.de where I found it in a carbonation calculator that was
uploaded to that site:
http://www.hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=74

The formula may have been derived from Kunze's data. In his Malting and
Brewing science he lists the CO2 content of beer at various temperatures
assuming atmospheric head pressure:

temp (C) -w/w % CO2
0 - 0.317
1 - 0.306
2 - 0.296
3 - 0.286
4 - 0.276
5 - 0.267
6 - 0.258
8 - 0.241
10 - 0.226
15 - 0.193
20 - 0.165

To get the CO2 content at a given head pressure, simply multiply the
atmospheric pressure CO2 content for the beer temperature with 1 plus the
head pressure in bar (1 bar = 100 kPa = 14.5 psi)

E.g. temp = 10C, over pressure = 0.5 bar, CO2 (w/w%) = 1.5 * 0.226% = 0.339
% = 3.39 g/l CO2 = 1.695 vol CO2.

Kai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:22:13 -0400
From: Mark Prior <priorm at hotmail.com>
Subject: Reinforced Vinyl Tubing

I use a FDA approved reinforced vinyl tubing for hot liquid transfers
with my pump. The tubing I use is similar to the 1/2" reinforced tubing
sold by More Beer:
http://morebeer.com/view_product/17603//Tubing_-_Reinforced_Vinyl_1_2_in_

Now for my question. Why is the tubing only approved upto 158F? Is it
because there is a risk of rupture above this temperature or because
dangerous toxins are leached out of the vinyl above this temperature?

Has anyone seen anything definitive regarding this? Can you point me to a
source? I've tried googling this without success.

Thanks,
Mark Prior

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:00:37 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Popcorn

Is there any experience with the use of popcorn, in pound
quantities, as the maize contribution in a CAP or CACA?
Does the flavor carry over into the finished brew?
Could I achieve the same flavor effects by toasting grits?
Are the popping oils successfully trapped by the grain bed
during the sparge?

Autumn's on the way - pemmican con queso and popcorn-maple
ale, mmm-mm.

gds, stencil

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5587, 08/03/09
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5586 (August 02, 2009)

HOMEBREW Digest #5586 Sun 02 August 2009

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
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or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
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tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Carbonation levels at bottling time (Fred L Johnson)
CO2 Volumes ("A. J. deLange")
CO2 Volumes - Forget Polynomials ("A.J deLange")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* The HBD Logo Store is now open! *
* http://www.hbd.org/store.html *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3400
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. THank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

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instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:27:11 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Carbonation levels at bottling time

Following a fermentation in an unpressurized container (carboy,
bucket, etc.), the carbon dioxide levels in the beer can be
calculated based on the temperature of the beer. For example, at 65
degrees F and with the headspace filled with CO2, one can assume that
the beer has about 0.9 volumes of CO2 in it. If one intends to bottle
this beer and prime the bottle to achieve a final CO2 level of 2.5
volumes, one should add only enough sugar to provide 1.6 volumes of
CO2 in addition to the 0.9 volumes already in the beer. This all
assume that no CO2 is lost during the transfer(s), which would be one
in one bottles straight from the fermentor or two if one racks it to
a bottling vessel before transferring to the bottle. If the latter,
batch priming the entire batch would certainly lead to additional CO2
loss. The question is how much?

Does anyone have knowledge of how much CO2 is lost from the beer by
simply racking the beer directly to a bottle? I'm sure that
commercial bottling lines take this into consideration.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:20:47 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: CO2 Volumes

A day or 2 ago I posted some polynomial fits to what I said were the
ASBC tables. Fred saw some disagreement there and so I went back and
looked and looked and couldn't find anything on my disks pertaining to
a fit to the ASBC tables but what I did find was some fits to
McDantim's curves and so I think that must be where those polynomials
came from. The McDantim curves are straight lines on volume vs.
pressure charts at a given temperature. The ASBC constant temperature
curves are not straight lines. Thus the McDantim curves are much
easier to fit and the residuals are smaller but the numbers don't
agree with the ASBC tables or fits to them.

Here is a simple fit to the portion of the ASBC table up to 30 psi
(minimum pressure in the table is 5 psig) and 86 F (min. temp is 32
F). Does anyone carbonate at 86F? No, didn't think so. Reasoning this
way I took the approach of fitting best in the portion of the table
near 38 F and 10 psi (there is as much art in fitting as science).
This is around 2.4 volumes which I think is probably typical of what
we do. Error is less than 0.05 Vol between 36 and 46 F for any
pressure between 5 and 30 psig.: Error climbs to as much as 0.1 vol at
32F and 51 F (i.e. it's less than 0.1 from 32 - 50 F).

V = 3.0355 -0.040798*T + 0.10122*P - 0.00028923*P*T

Including squared P and T terms improves things noticeably and extends
the range:

V = 3.4361 - 0.070962*T + 0.14049*P + 0.00047273*T*T - 0.0011049*T*P
- 0.00022153*P*P

Here disagreement with the tables in less than 0.04 Volumes for any
pressure between 5 and 30 for temperatures between 32 and 60 F and
less than 0.01 from 36 to 41F (which I'm supposing covers the usual
range of storage temperatures), again at any pressure between 5 and 30
psig. Agreement with the table is better than 0.05 up to 72 F, and
0.1 up to 80F.

If you are going to use these in a spreadsheet it doesn't really
matter how many coefficients you have (once you have them typed in and
you can cut and paste from the e-mail to do that) so here are the
coefficients for a 3rd order fit. I'm just going to list them.

K0 =3.3518
K1 =-0.074649
K2 =0.16466
K3 =0.00072579
K4 =-0.0020645
K5 =-0.00015
K6 =-2.5727e-06
K7 =7.6321e-06
K8 =9.3369e-07
K9 =1.3224e-06

The coefficients progress in the order of the power of the terms. Thus
K0 is the constant (0 power) term, K1 and K2 are the coefficients for,
respectively, T and P, K3, K4 and K5 are for the second order terms,
respectively T*T, T*P and P*P and K6 through K9 are for the 3rd order
terms : T*T*T, then T*T*P, T*P*P and P*P*P in that order. No weighting
was applied in doing this fit and the result is agreement to better
than 0.03 volumes between 5 and 30 psig and 32 to 86 F. The rms
disagreement with the table is 0.005 Vol. Going to higher order fits
does not improve things and in fact results in singularities in the
fitting matrix. Thus in reality these data are not that well suited to
polynomial fitting.

Just as a reminder: here 1 Vol means that a liter of beer contains
gas which has a volume of 1 liter at 0 C and 760 mm Hg (1013.25 mb).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 15:58:24 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: CO2 Volumes - Forget Polynomials

Based on the comments I made in my last post about the ASBC volume
table not really being well suited for polynomial fitting I thought
more about the problem and decided that a better approach might be to
calculate the effective Henry coefficient (ratio of dissolved gas to
gas pressure) from the tabulated data, see if it is relatively
constant with pressure (it is except at low temperature) and see if I
could fit the ratio to temperature. When I sat down at my machine to
have a look at this I found an e-mail from Fred with a formula using
just such an approach that he had found on Kai's site (www.braumeister.com
). Fred asked how it compared to the ASBC table. The answer is that it
compares reasonably well at low temperature but not so well at the
high temperatures (at which no one in his right mind would be
carbonating beer anyway). I went ahead and did what I intended to do
and came up with

Vols = (P+ 14.695)*(0.018061 + 0.090166*exp(-(T-32)/43.157))

which is certainly a lot simpler than the polynomials and more
accurate - over the entire span of the ASBC table. It is in English
units, i.e. P is in psig and T in Fahrenheit and the result is in
volumes. Kai's similar formula (which you can find at his site as
given above) takes pressure in atmospheres, temperature in Celsius and
returns CO2 quantity in grams per liter. This formula compares to the
ASBC table slightly better than Kai's formula in the region of
interest (temperatures below 40 F) and appreciably better above 80 F
(but who cares about above 80F?). The reason neither of these formulae
are accurate at the lower temperatures is that the "Henry coefficient"
has a weak dependence on pressure at these lower temperatures (at
least according to the data in the ASBC table). The ASBC table
contains 1371 entries. The formula is in agreement with 95% of them to
better than 0.02 volumes and to 75% of them to less than 0.01 volume.
At temperatures between 38 and 41 F and pressures between 17 and 21
psig errors of a much as 0.045 volumes can be incurred.

A.J.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5586, 08/02/09
*************************************
-------