Homebrew Digest #5823 (April 08, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5823 Fri 08 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
RE: Immediate Gratification is Death (Patrick Babcock) (Tim Runnette)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 07:24:00 -0500
From: Tim Runnette <trunnette at me.com>
Subject: RE: Immediate Gratification is Death (Patrick Babcock)

After reading both Pat & AJ's posts, I'd like to add that
I agree with both of you.I enjoy the daily e-mail from
HBD and non-live interaction. The 80 character
restriction seems to catch me all the time. That is
frustrating but I should learn.

In any case I enjoy the well thought-out responses
on this forum. Furthermore, it reminds me of how
long I've been involved in the hobby.

Thanks gents,

Cheers,

Timmy

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5823, 04/08/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5822 (April 07, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5822 Thu 07 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Immediate Gratification is Death (Patrick Babcock)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 08:15:37 -0400
From: Patrick Babcock <patrick.babcock at gmail.com>
Subject: Immediate Gratification is Death

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

AJ comments regarding the lack of "immediacy" in the HBD format, and
suggests that this be changed...

Please go back in the archives in the vicinity of mid to late1996 and
A period of time I like to refer to as "The Book of Immediacy-Induced
Calamities". This is the period of time in which the HBD was ported to
a Majordomo format that allowed readers to get either individual
postings or Digests, and the ability to reconsider a post was
eliminated. The resulting maelstrom of emails spelled death to the
Digest, and, during this period, many long-standing, highly valued
contributors gave up in frustration and walked away, never to return.
This is why the Digest is a once daily digest. It's ability to allow a
poster to "reconsider" and cancel a post requires same - as does our
"deadman switch" moderation. What other email-based forum gives the
wrier the ability to post, cancel, edit, and repost before
publication? Also, a high paced, realtime forum requires dedicated,
realtime monitoring - something for which we haven't the resources.
Paraphrasing the words of Captain Barbossa: I am disinclined to
acquiesce to this particular suggestion.

As for the formatting issues, I am working on this. Unfortunately,
with all that is going on in my personal life and my professional
life, I've had precious little time to focus on it - but change, she
is a comin'...

See ya!

Pat Babcock
Home Brew Digest, Inc.
Chief of Janitorial Services

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5822, 04/07/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5821 (April 06, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5821 Wed 06 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
5.2; HBD ("A. J. deLange")
Water profiles ("Dave Draper")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 00:50:01 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdelan at gmail.com>
Subject: 5.2; HBD

No, A.J. isn't too enthusiastic about 5.2. It's simply a mix of the mono
and dibasic sodium salts of phosphoric acid. It actually buffers at 5.8
in distilled water which has caused me to conclude that the phosphate in
the malt is supposed to supply additional phosphate to form the buffer.
But it doesn't seem to work. On another forum I say that it works well
unless there is a pH meter involved. I am waiting for the first report
from anyone who got it to do what it is supposed to do as confirmed by
properly made pH readings.

There is a reason why it doesn't work. Buffers have low buffering
capacity away from the pKs of the acid on whose salts the buffer is
based. 5.2 is not near any of the pKs of phosphoric acid (the rule of
thumb is that the difference in design pH and the nearest pK should be
less than one.)

Now all this is discussed extensively in other fora - but not here. Why?
After some head scratching I decided it is a question of format. To
submit the last message in a form HBD would accept took 4 tries - line
length etc. I had to copy the post into a text editor and insert hard
carriage returns. That aside, it then gets posted and appears next day
or the day after and the following day someone may respond which gets
posted the next day. The "competition" uses what seems these days to be
a more or less standard bulletin board format. You enter your post and
anyone who checks in 3 seconds later sees it. If he replies, and you've
ticked the proper box, you get an e-mail. IOW everything is immediate -
the instant gratification that everyone wants today, So why I am
mentioning this? In the hope that HBD might be able to get back to the
"glory days" I mentioned a day or 2 ago by changing format. I have no
idea what this would involve (other than the frustration, anger,
rage.... that are part of anything that involves software). I suspect
money would be involved.

What do the Janitors think?

A.J.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 06:45:53 -0500
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Water profiles

On 5 Apr 2011 at 23:12, in #5820 Martin had this to say:

> I regret to say that the information posted on Dave's site is
> painfully incorrect. Unfortunately, this is an example of the
> mis-information that persists on the web and in print on water and
> water profiles. Of the non-Belgian profiles shown on that website,
> only Burton 3, Dortmund 2, Edinburgh, and Dublin 2 balance when their
> carbonate content is assumed to be bicarbonate. Dublin 1, Edinburgh
> 2, and Munich will also balance, but only if the carbonate is input as
> carbonate. Unfortunately, carbonate does not exist in significant
> concentration in typical drinking water. Most brewers would not
> understand the conflicts in these profiles.

Martin is of course completely correct, and this problem has been
known for a long time. I was merely collecting the info available at
that time. There have been dozens and dozens of posts over the years
(most by AJ!) discussing how to tweak these (and other) profiles so
that some kind of balance is achieved. I frankly haven't had the
energy to capture all that...

And it was by dumb luck that my "random beer quote" that my email
program generates for me happened to be one of AJ's...! I don't know
what the random quote will be until I hit Send...!

Cheers, Dave in Seabrook
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
...we are usually at the mercy of gravity. ---A.J. deLange

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5821, 04/06/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5820 (April 05, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5820 Tue 05 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Water Profiles (mossview5)
RE: Water ("Mike Patient")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 09:28:13 -0400
From: mossview5 <mossview5 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Water Profiles

It was nice to hear from Dave Draper and his discussion of the early
days of HBD. Back in those days, information was scarce and you took
what you could get. Fortunately, those days are gone and some things
have improved.

I regret to say that the information posted on Dave's site is painfully
incorrect. Unfortunately, this is an example of the mis-information that
persists on the web and in print on water and water profiles. Of the
non-Belgian profiles shown on that website, only Burton 3, Dortmund 2,
Edinburgh, and Dublin 2 balance when their carbonate content is
assumed to be bicarbonate. Dublin 1, Edinburgh 2, and Munich will also
balance, but only if the carbonate is input as carbonate. Unfortunately,
carbonate does not exist in significant concentration in typical
drinking water.
Most brewers would not understand the conflicts in these profiles.

I see that Dave dutifully footnoted the sources of the profiles, but that old
adage GIGO truely applies here. While there is no doubt that water quality
in these locations vary with time and it is impossible to assign a
single set of
ion concentrations to a water source, but they should represent feasible
chemistry. This is a case where this information should either be corrected
or deleted to help avoid the spread of mis-information.

Let's clean up the web.

Martin

PS: Jacques didn't provide very good information either.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 11:17:35 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: Water

5.2 stabalizer is great for maintaining a proper mash pH.
It works well and has served me well in the past year or two.
However, when using 5.2, any attempt to replicate a water profile will be
effortless.

Mike

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5820, 04/05/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5819 (April 04, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5819 Mon 04 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Water (rgriller)
Water profiles ("Dave Draper")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 11:49:03 +0000
From: rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca
Subject: Water

I guess it wouldn't be good to ask

AJ what he thinks of just

dechlorinating and using 5.2 for

pH. :)

Does RO water have the trace

elements yeast like/need?

Robin

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 07:01:44 -0500
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Water profiles

Dear Friends,

In #5818, AJ gives a friendly shout-out:

"Yes, HBD was, in its glory days, the place to go for water profile
data and discussion. IIRC it really got kicked off when Dave Draper
published a set of water profiles for all the famous brewing spots in
the world e.g. Pilsen, Munich, Dublin... "

Despite many moves and gyrations, my beer pages remain intact... the
link in my .sig block takes you there, and the direct shot to the
water composition tables is:

http://home.comcast.net/~david.s.draper/beer/waterpro.html

Thanks for tipping the cap AJ!

Cheers, Dave in Seabrook (TX)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
Cross your fingers and wait it out. ---A. J. deLange

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5819, 04/04/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5818 (April 03, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5818 Sun 03 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Logic, Inc. - Makers of Straight A Cleanser
www.ecologiccleansers.com

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Brewing Water Tools ("A.J deLange")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:55:11 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Brewing Water Tools

Yes, HBD was, in its glory days, the place
to go for water profile data and discussion.
IIRC it really got kicked off when Dave
Draper published a set of water profiles for all
the famous brewing spots in the world
e.g. Pilsen, Munich, Dublin... There had, of course,
been discussions about water chemistry
prior to that but I remember this list because it
occurred to me, new to all this at
the time, that I could write software that would
calculate the salt additions that could be
added to low ion water to produce those profiles
and I did that. I'd load up my Mac of the
era with a set of profiles and kick it off
before I went to bed at night and by next
morning, I'd have the recipes. They are still
on my website at www.wetnewf.org. I think
there are 21 of them and, if you believe in
the profiles, they are still valid.

In the course of doing this I noted a few
important things about the profile collection
(to which I have added from other sources
over the years). First, pH is never given.
Second, there is no consistency in how
bicarbonate is reported. Third,
no hypothesis
about what the number labeled
"bicarbonate" or "carbonate" means
will give, in the
majority of cases, an electrically
balanced ion profile unless one assumes a
ridiculously high pH. IOW, most of the
profiles list more cations than anions and
one can only balance them by raising the pH
to the point where there are enough OH-
ions to effect the balance. Fourth, when
nature puts bicarbonate into water she does
so by dissolving limestone with carbonic
acid so that if one wants to simulate a
particular carbonaceous water he must do
the same. Thus all the profiles I generated
call for a certain amount of carbon dioxide.

Naturally people back then did not want
recipes based on distilled water -
they wanted to know how much of what to
add to their water to duplicate the
water of the Isar. Sounds like an obvious
job for an Excel (which everyone has)
spreadsheet and those have proliferated.
Just do a search on "water spreadsheet"
on the net and you will find several of
them to choose from. The emphasis today
seems to be not so much on how much of
what to add to get Isar as it is to predict
mash pH and this is, of course, very
important and the water chemistry is a big
part. None of the spreadsheets of which
I am aware (except mine) models alkalinity
correctly. If a spreadsheet isn't asking
you what the pH of the source water is
and what you want the pH of the treated
water to be and isn't giving you the opportunity
to add CO2 (not that you would want to
be bothered with that in most cases) then
it isn't modeling the carbonate chemistry
correctly. However, there is some good
news. If source and target water pH is
less than 8.3 you can get away with
approximations and that's a good thing.
If you download and compare some of the
spreadsheets to mine (also at wetnewf)
you will see how much complexity complete
modeling requires. One caveat with the
spreadsheets: if a spreadsheet advises the
addition of calcium carbonate or sodium
bicarbonate to mash or water don't do it.
See Step 5 in the list below

As we get older and wiser our philosophy
about things changes. Today, as noted
by an earlier poster, the tendency is not
so much to duplicate the water of the Isar
(if you could you would have to know how
the brewers treated it, if at all when they
made their beers in order to achieve an
"authentic" Helles or Bock) as it is to produce
a good beer. That turns out to be much simpler
than duplicating Isar water with the CO2
bottle requirement, complex calculations.
The procedure is:
1. Start with the lowest mineral content
water you can. RO systems are now relatively
inexpensive and produce low enough mineral
content unless you have really nasty feed water.
2. Add enough calcium chloride
(food grade from LHBS) to get the calcium content up to
around 50 ppm.
3. If brewing from Pilsner base malt add
3% sauermalz to the gist, and if from ale malt
1.5%. In very dark beers don't use sauermalz.
Other acids can be used in place of sauermalz
but . sauermalz is just easy to estimate
(1 % for each 0.1 pH drop desired) easy to measure
out and available from most HB suppliers.
4. Check mash pH! Use a meter.
The strips read consistently low. This is extremely
important. pH should be around 5.4
5. If mash pH is too high then add more acid.
If it is too low then add base (carbonate,
bicarbonate, slaked lime). This is the only
situation in which base should be added to
mash. You will have less of a chance of
undershooting (low pH) if you add the sauermalz
in portions only adding the later portions
if the meter reading shows them to be necessary.
If increasing mash pH then add only small
amounts of alkali, stir, wait and remeasure.

This will get you a good beer. Now it is
up to you to figure out how to make it better.
Find out whatever you can about the style
you are interested in. If you know that the beer
you want to brew is traditionally brewed
with high sulfate water then brew this beer
again substituting gypsum (food grade from
LHBS) for some of the calcium chloride and
brew it again. If the beer you are shooting
for tastes salty (Export), add some
(non iodized) table salt. Etc. Take careful
notes and keep experimenting. Only you can
decide what combination of salts give you
the flavor character you desire. But you must
have proper mash pH. Get that right and
proper pH will be realized throughout the rest of
the process. Let it go too high and all
flavors become flat and the beers dull.

In summary I think I am saying, despite
all the effort I have put into understanding
the chemistry so that I can match a profile
to fractions of a percent that you should
forget about profiles except as a general
source of information about the water from
which a beer was originally brewed. There
is tons of discussion of this at various
places on the net. Search "brewing water".

So what do you need?
1. A source of low ion water. Cheap RO
unit from home improvement store or reef aquarium
supplier. Or, if you want to see if I'm
telling the truth or not before spending money on
one of those, RO water from the health
food store. If you are blessed with something like
Portland water, you don't need RO.
2. Calcium chloride, calcium carbonate
(you won't use it often), calcium sulfate (gypsum).
All should be food grade. LHBSs have these
in small quantities and they are not expensive
3. Sauermalz or lactic or phosphoric acid
or, if you live in the UK, CRS (a blend of food
grade hydrochloric and sulfuric acids).
All from the HBS.
4. A pH meter. This is the biggie for many.
Decent ones are now available for less than
$100 but that's still an appreciable outlay
for many. Don't use the strips. They will
trick you into adding salts when you don't
have to.
5. Knowledge. This is the tough one. There
is a lot of misinformation floating
around out there and the only way to
separate wheat from chaff is to understand
enough of the actual chemistry. I have
(again at the wetnewf site) a couple of
monographs on alkalinity and a paper on
what is involved in establishing mash tun
pH. These cover the ground but may be a
"drink from a fire hose" for someone just
starting out. If so, and you are motivated
enough, get a basic chemistry text, learn
the fundamentals (about atoms, molecules,
ions, moles, equivalents etc.)
and then bore in on law of mass action
and chemical equilibrium (the part of
the course we all hated in college).
If they name it as such, the
Henderson-Hsselbalch equation is the
powerhouse in brewing water chemistry
(it's used to calculate how bicarbonate
behaves). This is usually thoroughly
discussed in biochemistry texts.

A.J.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5818, 04/03/11
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5817 (April 01, 2011)

HOMEBREW Digest #5817 Fri 01 April 2011

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Monthly HBD Probe ("Pat Babcock")
Re: Brew water tools (stencil)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 28 Mar 2011
*** Condition: Green & Healthy ***
501(c)3 at risk
Projected 2011 Budget $3671.04
Expended against projection $1180.53
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $1899.30

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
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LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
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The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
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More information is available by sending the word "info" to
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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
Spencer Thomas, and Bill Pierce

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 07:09:21 -0500 (EST)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Monthly HBD Probe

Greetings, beerlings! Take me to your lager...

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 13:57:40 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Brew water tools

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:57:15 -0500,
in Homebrew Digest #5816 (March 31, 2011)
Mike Patient wrote:

>I've read some great things about brew water profiling here on the HBD.
>I am wondering what tools home brewers have access to for this.
>What will I need? (Other than knowledge)
>What is cost effective?
>What is the best out there?
>I could just research options, but I want to know what is practical and
>accessable.

Knowing the hardness and alkalinity of your feedwater and
your actual brewing water is pretty much fundamental. I'm
not an enthusiast of attempts to duplicate foreign brew-water
profiles, but I do like to bring down the residual
alkalinity, to improve extract yield.

The LaMotte test kits - 4824-DR for Hardness and 4491-DR for
Alkalinity - that I get from <pollardwater.con> seem to offer
the best balance of economy and precision. You can get much
cheaper stuff in the aquarium supply section of WalMart
(Seachem, RedSea, and the like), but precision is reduced.

My American Marine "Pinpoint" pH meter is entering its second
decade and still calibrates ok - though the current electrode
(the third) is getting very slow and will probably get the
boot soon. I got it from a now-defunct pet store here in
Berkshire County.

The only additives needed for my purposes are slaked lime
(Mrs Wages' Pickling Lime) and calcium chloride (from ESV
Aquarium Products, <esvco.com>.) I strongly suspect that the
DowFlake CaCl I spread on my porch steps is perfectly safe to
brew with, but what the hell.

For brew-water casks the Gamma Plastics <gamma2.net> Vittles
Vault line is hard to beat. The original VV's have a better
form factor, but the VVII's are translucent and their regular
shape makes it easier to mark their fill levels. The VVII's
nest-stack for storage, but their material is a little more
brittle than the older models. I use two 1-gallon VVII's for
brew water casks and regular VV's for fermenters.

As to the "I could brew a perfect Sammagoo clone if only I
could duplicate Pasig River water" trope, I think the real
goal is to learn what actually goes into the target brewer's
tun, not what comes out of the municipal tap - a difficult
task.

hth, stencil

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5817, 04/01/11
*************************************
-------