Homebrew Digest #5730 (September 06, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5730 Mon 06 September 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: plate chillers questions (Robert Tower)
Arkansas State Fair Judging ("Ken Haycook")
Re: plate chillers questions (Pete Calinski)
Returning home (Ed Jones)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
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IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:47:02 -0700
From: Robert Tower <roberttower at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: plate chillers questions

Paul Hethmon of Knoxville, Tennessee asks about plate chillers. I have
experience with the Blichmann Therminator. If you keep it relatively
clean, you can get within about 10 F. of ground water temp. If you are
diligent acid wash after every 5-6 uses to remove mineral build up, you
can get the wort to within 5-6 F. Since Paul's ground water is currently
76 F. I don't think either of these scenarios is acceptable. He may want
to stick with the immersion chiller.

I have similar issues with ground water temps during the summer. I can't
get my wort much below 80 F. in the summer time with the Blichmann
alone. The other three seasons are no problem. After trying numerous set
ups, I've settled on plumbing a copper immersion chiller in a bucket of
ice and water post plate chiller. I pump the wort out of the kettle,
through the plate chiller, then through the immersion chiller and
finally into the fermentor. Unfortunately, the first time I tried this
setup I hadn't thought about line resistance. Adding 25 feet of 3/8"
copper tubing to the pathway really slowed down my poor March pump, from
about 10 minutes with just the plate chiller to over 40 minutes when I
added the immersion chiller. Luckily I have a spare March pump so the
next time I brewed I plumbed the second pump at the end of the path
(between the fermentor and the immersion chiller). Now, between the two
pumps, my chilling time is down to about 15 minutes and the wort is
getting down into the low 60s. As you can imagine, this a lot of
equipment to have to set up and break down (not to mention maintain).
I'd really like it to be less equipment intensive, but I haven't found
another way that is as effective. Fortunately, I only have to do this
for the 3-4 summer time brews ("ain't no cure for the ....") I brew or
if I am brewing a lager. Otherwise, I can leave the immersion chiller
and the second pump on the equipment shelf.

Stay cool,
Bob Tower / Los Angeles, CA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 07:56:20 -0500
From: "Ken Haycook" <k.haycook at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Arkansas State Fair Judging

How about an early fall ROAD TRIP? The Central Arkansas Fermenters will be
hosting the
Arkansas State Fair Homebrew competition and we need judges. All BJCP styles
of beer,
mead, and cider will be accepted. 2008 AHA/BJCP style guidelines will be
used. The
Competition will be AHA/BJCP sanctioned. Sorry, since this is a State of
Arkansas
sponsored function, we can not accept entries for out-of-state brewers. For
in-state
brewers, the details are located on www.centralarkansasfermenters.com.
1st Round Judging will begin at 4:00 PM, Monday, October 11th, and will
continue
through Oct 12th at the Arkansas State Fair Grounds, at the Arts and Crafts
Building;
2600 Howard St, Little Rock, AR. Friday October 15th will be scheduled for
2nd Round
judging beginning at 4:00 pm. Best of Show will be judged at the Arkansas
State Fair
Grounds; Arts and Crafts Building; 10/16 starting at 4 pm. Fair Passes will
be available
to all pre-registered judges. Registration will be on-line at
www.centralarkansasfermenters. Fair Passes will allow each car to park on
the fairgrounds
and every person in the car will have free entrance to the fair grounds.
Interested
judges please contact Ken Haycook at 501-223-0030 or k.haycook AT
sbcglobal.net.

Events Schedule:
October 11th - 12th: 1st Round Judging 4 pm-10 pm; Arkansas State Fair
Grounds,
Creative Arts Bldg, Little Rock AR, 72201
October 15th: 2nd Round Judging 4:00 pm 10:00 pm on the Arkansas State
Fair Grounds,
Creative Arts Bldg, Little Rock AR, 72201
October 16th: Best of Show Judging and winners will be announced, 4:00 pm -
10:00 pm,
Arkansas State Fair Grounds, Creative Arts Bldg, Little Rock AR
The address for the Arkansas State Fairgrounds is 2600 Howard St.
Exit I-30 at #139, Roosevelt Rd and travel west. The fair grounds will be
on the left.
More information will be sent with your pass.

Ken Haycook
501-223-0030

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 09:24:40 -0400
From: Pete Calinski <petec.100 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: plate chillers questions

I have been successful using a bucket of ice water. Specifically I fill a
bottling bucket (7 gal. with a valve at the bottom) with ice and water. I
start the chilling process using tap water until the chilling slows down.
Then I switch my immersion chiller from the tap to the ice water. If I
control the flow so that the water coming out of the chiller is not too cold
it works great.

Usually I have a lot of ice in my freezer but I have been known to buy a bag
for $1.39 if my supply is low.

Hope this helps.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:06:09 -0400
From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at gmail.com>
Subject: Returning home

Hi All,

I've been out of the hobby for almost 5 years. Moving to a smaller house,
getting married, and having babies will do that. I haven't built my new
brewery yet, but I wanted to get back into the swing of things and dream
for what the brewery will look like when we move in the Spring. I would
post a link to pictures of my old brewery but I can't get past the posting
restrictions of the digest.

I wasn't aware of the TT exodus from the HBD and now the (hopeful)
flight back. Going back through some of the recent archives, I saw
several names from the past. So when I start all over again next
Spring, I know there will be many, many years of experience here.

One question, does anyone know what the current state of
ProMash is? It looks like it hasn't been updated in 7 years and Jeff
has some family things going on which has caused him to halt
work on ProMash 2.0. Are there quality alternatives to ProMash
these days?

Thanks!

Ed Jones

PS I've tried sending this 4 times with annoying returns each time.
I hope it goes through this time. grrrr.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5730, 09/06/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5729 (September 05, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5729 Sun 05 September 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
(Joe Dunne)
Re: Cider (Tim Bray)
plate chillers questions (Paul Hethmon)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 11:18:05 -0500
From: Joe Dunne <jrdunne at hotmail.com>
Subject:

Jim asked about reculturing Oberon yeast and how
to tell if it's gone wrong.

Short of plating it and looking at it under a
microscope, I'm not sure how you'd know before
fermenting with it.

For my two cents, it's not worth risking the batch.

I've had two batches go horribly wrong in over 15 years.

One was recultured yeast from a Rochefort bottle (IIRC)
that took a long time to take off, like you describe.

The other (recently) was a batch that took 48 hours
to start in the carboy.

Both attributable to different problems.

Both undrinkable.

Since the recultured yeast is essentially free, I say
buy another six pack of Oberon and try again.

Joe Dunne
Chicago

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:24:11 -0700
From: Tim Bray <tbray at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: Cider

Beer always contains residual sweetness from
unfermented sugars; cider rarely does. That's why a slightly sour
beer (e.g. Berlinerweisse, Geuze, etc) can still be drinkable.
But even the slightest sourness in cider is instantly detectable
and quickly overwhelms the taste buds. (Hmm, maybe that's why I
don't like tart juice for my ciders: perhaps I'm always getting
some Lacto contamination...)

Someone else mentioned the traditional Norman (French) method of
starving the yeast by precipitating a pectin clot. A few people
have successfully done this in the States but it is not easy. It
does yield a magnificent cider if you can get it to work.

I often say that cider is easier to make than beer, but it's much
harder to make _great_ cider than great beer.

Cheers,
Tim in Albion, California

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 15:35:33 -0400
From: Paul Hethmon <phethmon at hethmon.com>
Subject: plate chillers questions

I'm considering purchasing a plate chiller and found a place
called DudaDiesel:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php

Does anyone have any experience with them?

Comparing to Shirron or Blichmann on surface area and price:

Shirron, 0.4 sq meters, $99
Blichmann, 0.6 sq meters, $199
DudaDiesel, 0.5 sq meters $89
DudaDiesel, 0.7 sq meters $135

All list the same construction, all stainless plates with pure
copper brazing.

I'm just brewing 5 gallon batches, but the groundwater here in
Knoxville Tennessee is running about 76 right now. My current
immersion chiller is taking way too long to cool. Though I have
thought of turning it into a pre-chiller for a plate chiller.

thanks,

Paul Hethmon
Tennessee Valley Homebrewers

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5729, 09/05/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5728 (September 03, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5728 Fri 03 September 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Culturing Yeast (Jim Stansell)
15th Annual Music City Brew-Off ("Steve Johnson")
Morland's yeast (Fred L Johnson)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:53:40 -0400
From: Jim Stansell <jim.stansell at comcast.net>
Subject: Culturing Yeast

I've cultured Bell's yeast successfully in the past, but I've got
some strangeness going on this time that I'm not sure how to evaluate.

I started to culture some a week or so ago by using the dregs from a
six-pack of Oberon into about 500ml of starter wort at roughly 1.040.
I put the flask on a stir plate and let it whir away for two or three
days, at which point I couldn't really tell if it had taken off or
not. The gravity had dropped some, but I wasn't getting any sense of
active fermentation.

Undaunted, I dumped this into 1.5 liters of starter wort (1.040) and
put it back on the stir plate. After another three or four days I
wasn't getting any signs of fermentation (no change in the gravity),
so I just turned it off to see what would settle out.

When I looked at it the next day there was some activity taking
place, and it looked as if there were some "mold-like" colonies on
the surface. Simply out of curiosity, I started up the stir plate
again, and by last night the gravity had dropped significantly, and
the starter had taken on that milky color I'm used to seeing.

I tasted the starter expecting to get a sour flavor, but it tasted
relatively normal. To my knowledge I've never had a wild yeast
contamination in any of my beers before, so I'm not sure what I
should be looking for. I boiled the starter wort in the flasks, so
they should have been pretty sanitary, and the flasks were sealed
with sanitized aluminum foil.

How can I tell if it simply took awhile for the actual yeast to take
hold as compared to something wild contaminating it? I hate to
sacrifice a five gallon batch if there's something wrong with it.

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 20:08:25 -0500
From: "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson3 at comcast.net>
Subject: 15th Annual Music City Brew-Off

Announcing the 15th Annual Music City Brew Off
October 8th and 9th, 2010 - Nashville, TN
To all homebrewers, judges, stewards, and beer enthusiasts, I personally
invite you to the 15th Annual Music City Brew Off.
We are continuing our efforts to make our competition the finest in the
South East.
Our competition this year will be held at the Courtyard Marriott in
Goodlettsville, TN (865 Conference Drive, 37072).
Room rates for Attendees are $79 (2 Queen room or King) or $99 for a Suite.
Please use the link on our website: www.musiccitybrewers.com or call the
hotel: 615-851-3000.

This year's special guest will be Dave Miller, author of 'Dave Miller's
Homebrewing Guide', and AHA style series: Continental Pilsner'
This year we will be kicking off our festivities with a dinner and
presentation by Dave Miller (topic to be announced).
The dinner will be buffet style and there will be several homebrewed beers
to pair with the dinner items.
You will find the menu on our website along with other updates regarding our
event. After dinner we want to invite you to our 2nd Club Crawl.
This is much like the NHC's club night but on a smaller scale. We will have
as many tables set up as we can with regional clubs boasting their finest
brews.

Saturday morning our BJCP/AHA Sanctioned Competition will commence.
We will have a Judge and Steward orientation beginning at 8:30. Judging
will start at 9:00.
We will hold (2) sessions of judging; a morning session and an afternoon
session; with lunch in between.
Lunch will be provided for all judges and stewards courtesy of the Music
City Brewers.
Judges will be receiving a special gift from the MCB in appreciation of
their participation

Prizes for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place beers, ciders, and meads will be provided
by our corporate sponsor Rebel Brewer (www.rebelbrewer.com).

Also 'The Ed Tate Club Award' will be given to one of the participating
clubs with a minimum of 10 entries.
The Ed Tate Award represents a quality award based on 10 categories of
involvement.
The winning club will receive an engraved plaque and will also be engraved
on a permanent plaque held by the Music City Brewers.

Following the judging we will have an in house "pub crawl". In years past we
have always gone to the various brew pubs and beer spots in Nashville.
This year we are keeping it at the hotel and will have several local and
regionally brewed beers available along with the homebrews leftover from the
Club Crawl.

Proceeds to benefit the 'Childrens Miracle Network'.
Interested in Judging/Stewarding please contact Jonathan Adams at
bigjohn3957 at gmail.com
Hotel Reservations can be made by going to our website and following the
link for reservations.
Dinner Reservations must be made ahead of time and can be made on our
website.
The first 20 Pre-Registered BJCP Judges will get their dinners for $20 ($45
for non-judges).
You must be an experienced judge in order to qualify for the discounted
dinner.
The deadline for registering for the dinner is October 1st.

Entry and Judge/Steward Registration is up and running now.
Rules, Regulations and all timelines can be found at
www.musiccitybrewers.com
Entry registration will close on September 17th. We are accepting entries
starting on September 10th. Entry deadline is September 24th.
Please ship all entries to: MCBO
C/O: Rebel Brewer Homebrew Supply
105 Space Park North
Goodlettsville, TN 37072
615-859-2188
Store Hours for drop off: Tuesday - Friday 12:00PM - 6:00PM; Saturday
9:00AM - 1:00PM
?
Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have regarding the 15th
Annual Music City Brew Off.
Jonathan Adams, Competition Director
Phone: 615-504-7673 Email: bigjohn3957 at gmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 21:47:54 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Morland's yeast

Does anyone happen to have the yeast that Morland used to use for making Old
Speckled Hen or the yeast used by Green King who now brews it? I understand that
Morland used to use two strains for Old Speckled Hen. (I love this beer when you
can get it fresh!)

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5728, 09/03/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5727 (September 02, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5727 Thu 02 September 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Cider (bill keiser)
Hop storage ("Mike Maag")
Cider reductions ("Pat Babcock")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:09:55 -0400
From: bill keiser <sharpstik at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cider

I live in Florida, so finding local cider apples is impossible. I am
thinking that adding some acid to the cider can adjust it to create
sourness.
I recently had some Berlinerweisse, a traditional German sour ale that
is so sour that it is traditionally served with woodruff sugar syrup on
the side to make it drinkable for the weak of heart. The brewer had
made it as an extract recipe. Typically this is done with lactobacillus
, but he had sort of cheated by adding 2 oz of lactic acid after
fermentation to increase sourness.
I have my second batch of cider in the brew fridge bubbling away now
and might try this adjustment.
bill keiser

> . . .
> All dessert varieties (table fruit) are predominantly sweet, but
> most of them also have acidity to balance the sugars, . . .

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:54:42 -0500
From: "Mike Maag" <mikemaag at comcast.net>
Subject: Hop storage

Last year I put my hop harvest in FoodSaver bags (after drying of course).
The FoodSaver sucked all the air out and heat sealed the bags. I had
really packed the hops into each bag. The FoodSaver still reduced the size
of the bag contents dramatically. I put the bags in my serving fridge at 42
F.
I opened a bag around 3 weeks ago to brew an American IPA (which I'm
sipping as I type this, Yum). The hops had been compacted almost as hard as
a hop plug, and were in really great condition. As I broke pieces off to
throw in the kettle, the aroma blew me away. Most definitely the best hop
storage method I've found.

Mike Maag, Shenandoah Valley

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 10:54:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Cider reductions

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Though I have made cider reductions for various pork dishes, you are
correct: the manner of volume resuction I referred to was simply sipping
it down :o)

- --
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5727, 09/02/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5726 (September 01, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5726 Wed 01 September 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
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FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
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or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Cider (Tim Bray)
RE: Mmmm! Cider! (Joe Dunne)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:44:21 -0700
From: Tim Bray <tbray at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: Cider

When I make cider I go out of my way to make sure I get 'tart blend'
fresh cider to start with.
I find hard cider made from predominately sweet varieties of apples
to be a pretty bland drink.

All dessert varieties (table fruit) are predominantly sweet, but
most of them also have acidity to balance the sugars, otherwise
they taste insipid, like Red Delicious, which has very little
acidity and also very little flavor. If you use juice from
insipid apples you get an insipid cider. But most dessert apples
(those you can eat out of hand) have enough acidity to make them
taste good with all the sugar; when you ferment the sugar away,
the resulting cider is over-acidic. For my taste, anyway. If you
backsweeten, this is not the case - then you need more acid to
balance the sugar again.

I suspect the blandness you note is from lack of tannins and lack
of flavor, rather than lack of tartness. Tannins give cider body
and complexity, and are almost completely absent from most "apple
cider" juices from modern orchards.

In fact, traditionally, cider makers
have blended in the juice of tart 'crabapple' varieties to achieve a
good result for hard cider.

The main reason to add crabs is to get tannin, which dessert
apples lack; and to get complexity, which dessert apples also
lack. If your juice has low acidity, crabs will definitely bump
that up, but typically you can only add about 10% crabs before the
acidity gets too high.

I target around 0.3% to 0.5% titratable acidity. More than 0.5%
and it gets too 'sharp' for my taste. Apple character comes
through best at around 0.35%, but that may be partly because I
also have significant tannins. (I grow cider apples to get
tannin, but most people are going to have a hard time finding that
kind of juice.) Using commercial apple juice you probably want
about 0.5%, but much more than that and it will be quite sharp.

In the end of course it boils down to one's personal taste.

Indeed it does! Mine is for a cider with perceptible apple flavor
and aroma, smooth mouthfeel, full body, and soft complex
bitterness. I never got that back when I followed the oft-cited
advice to use plenty of tart apples; all I got was thin, sharp
ciders. After malo-lactic fermentation they got better, but it
wasn't until I started measuring titratable acidity and using
cider fruit that I started getting really great ciders. The best
of these came from syrupy-sweet juices, with OG around 1060 and TA
around 0.3%.

But obviously not everyone shares my tastes, because there are
commercial ciders made from Granny Smith apples, and I find that
stuff undrinkable. Out here in California there is a commercial
cider made from Gravensteins and I don't think it tastes very
good, either, but a lot of people drink it.

My taste runs with the long established tradition of using plenty
of tart apples in the cider blend. Doing otherwise results,
frankly, in a pretty lackluster cider.

The long established traditions rely on apples cultivated
specifically for cider production. These have very different
haracteristics than table fruit - similar to the difference
between table grapes and wine grapes. The traditional blending is
a mix of sweet, bittersweet, and sharp (or bittersharp) apples.
The sweet and bittersweet have very low acidity and are frequently
all but inedible; the sharps allow adjustment of acidity while
contributing complexity and flavor. Table fruit on the other hand
is generally sweet/sharp with no detectable bitterness. Frankly I
find all ciders made from table fruit lackluster, but I'm spoiled
by my own product.

Cheers,
Tim in Albion, CA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:18:48 -0500
From: Joe Dunne <jrdunne at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Mmmm! Cider!

BR and Pat mention reducing the volume before putting
the cider in the rear of the fridge to ferment.

Should I assume that you simply pour out a glass or
two?

I'm guessing this is not a "reduction" in the fashion
of making a reduction sauce.

Thanks,

Joe Dunne
Chicago, North Side

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5726, 09/01/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5725 (August 31, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5725 Tue 31 August 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Mmmm! Cider! ("B.R. Rolya")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2500.06
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 422.01

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:20:06 -0400
From: "B.R. Rolya" <br at triagemusic.com>
Subject: Re: Mmmm! Cider!

On Aug 28, 2010, at 12:12 AM, Pat wrote:
>
> To make har cider, all I've ever done is to buy unpasteurized cider,
> reduce the volume to 3/4 (yummy stuff, that!), loosen the cap, and
> leave
> it in the back of the fridge. I top the result up every season.

I do a similar thing. In addition to reducing the volume, I give the
bottle
a good shake to aerate it before putting it in the back of the fridge.
I don't loosen the cap - I'll have to try that - but do occasionally
unscrew
the cap to vent it.

It's not the most complex cider in the world but it makes decent, every
day cider with no effort.

BR Rolya
New York, NY

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5725, 08/31/10
*************************************
-------

Homebrew Digest #5724 (August 30, 2010)

HOMEBREW Digest #5724 Mon 30 August 2010

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org

***************************************************************
TODAY'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:

Sponsor The Home Brew Digest!
Visit http://www.hbd.org/sponsorhbd.shtml to learn how

Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************

Contents:
Re: Cider (Alan Semok)
Re: Cider (David Lewinnek)
Change is inevitable... ("Pat Babcock")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOTE: With the economy as it is, the HBD is struggling to
meet its meager operating expenses of approximately $3500
per year. If less than half of those currently directly
subscribed to the HBD sent in a mere $5.00, the HBD would
be able to easily meet its annual expenses, with room to
spare for next year. Please consider it.

Financial Projection As of 13 Jun 2010
Projected 2010 Budget $3305.65
Expended against projection $2280.59
Projected Excess/(Shortfall) $ 346.85

As always, donors and donations are publicly acknowledged
and accounted for on the HBD web page. Thank you

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
"subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright
HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK
before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content
cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
and Spencer Thomas

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 00:46:41 -0400
From: Alan Semok <asemok at mac.com>
Subject: Re: Cider

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:02:02 -0700, Tim Bray <tbray at
wildblue.net>wrote:

> ... so you want to start with a juice that is
> cloyingly sweet - it should have virtually no perceptible tartness.

WOW...do I ever disagree with that statement!!!!

In my experience (and according to hundreds of years of tradition as
well), I think the exact opposite is true.
When I make cider I go out of my way to make sure I get 'tart blend'
fresh cider to start with.
I find hard cider made from predominately sweet varieties of apples
to be a pretty bland drink. In fact, traditionally, cider makers
have blended in the juice of tart 'crabapple' varieties to achieve a
good result for hard cider.

Luckily there are still plenty of orchards left here in NJ that grow
some older varieties of apples with the requisite tartness. A few
will even press cider blended to specifications, and luckily most
either sell the juice unpasteurized or use "UV cold pasteurization".

In the end of course it boils down to one's personal taste.
My taste runs with the long established tradition of using _plenty_
of tart apples in the cider blend. Doing otherwise results,
frankly, in a pretty lackluster cider.

Just my .02... your mileage may vary... :-) Best way to decide is
to make a batch each way and see which is better for your own taste
buds.

cheers...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:06:40 -0400
From: David Lewinnek <davelew at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cider

Tim Bray talks about being unable to find a yeast with a low enough
alcohol tolerance to make a sweet cider:

> > Or, should I assume that the cider yeast will stop working at a
> > relatively pleasant alcohol level and that the addition
> > of late sugars will only add sweetness?
>
> If you find such a yeast, send it to me! Or get one of the yeast labs
> to propagate it - North American cidermakers would be delighted to have
> such an option. Alas, all Saccharomyces strains metabolize fruit
> sugars quite readily and therefore produce a dry cider. This is why
> many of us persist in gambling on spontaneous fermentations: some wild
> yeasts have very low alcohol tolerance, and you can end up with a
> finished cider with residual sweetness. That's kind of the Grail for
> cidermakers, but it's a risky endeavour,

There is a technique used by cider makers in the Normandy region of
France that might be helpful here. The trick is to copy what so many
new homebrewers do to get a stuck fermentation: damage the yeast
in such a way that you lower their alcohol tolerance. This is possible
because it's relatively easy to remove certain nutrients (I believe this
is fixed nitrogen, but I'm not sure) from apple juice. Basically, before
pitching, add some pectinase enzyme (most homebrew stores sell
pectinase for clearing wines and ciders) to the fruit juice. All of the
pectin will drop out of solution and form something that looks like trub
on the bottom of your fermenter. Then rack the juice off this trub into
a new fermenter, and pitch a packet of dry yeast. Without the stuff
that drops out, the yeast will be unable to synthesize certain
compounds, and will end up with thin cell walls, and very low alcohol
tolerance.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:15:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Change is inevitable...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

To all those returning to the HBD from the AHA's TechTalk, and to all who
are coming to our virtual shores for the first time: welcome home.

There are a couple of "slowly simmering" changes for the HBD that, with
the termination of Tech Talk, have been placed on full boil. I shortly
expect to be eliminating the line length limit block and the HTML block
from the Digest, replacing them with filters that strip the HTML and
automagically adjust the line lengths to fit in the 80 character wide
space the Digest has supported for these long many years.

What this means to most is that the top two impediments to posting to the
HBD will be relieved. The third project on the burner is to remap
non-standard character sets back into Western ASCII. This one will take a
bit longer; however, that project will eliminate the third of the top four
impediments. Number four was alleviated earlier last month when I finally
got the correct reverse DNS mapping in place with our ISP (sometimes it's
just a matter of getting the right technician on the line. Too bad it took
over a year to get that one...).

To those who have been faithfully following the HBD, I hope there are no
unintended consequences. Please keep your eyes open to any "strangeness"
during the next several months and let me know - not everything will be
apparent to me in testing and implementation. I will put a blurb into the
Digest whenever I go live with something new, so use that as an indicator
should something untoward occur.

Thanks.

- --
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #5724, 08/30/10
*************************************
-------