FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: Carbonation saturation (Fred L Johnson)
Carbonation ("A.J deLange")
German Brewing between 1850 and 1900 (Kai Troester)
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 07:30:04 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Carbonation saturation
I think Joe wants to carbonate his beer by pumping in a known VOLUME
of CO2 into his tank and waiting for it to dissolve into the beer so
that at equilibrium he has achieved the desired amount of CO2 in his
beer at the storage temperature. I love this idea and would like to
give it a shot on paper.
I hesitate to post this to the Digest, as I don't quite trust my
reasoning and knowledge. But here goes anyway. I just remember that
God loves me even if I'm dead wrong.
Joe: I think you meant to say that you wanted to achieve 2.5 volumes
(not atmospheres) of CO2 in your beer. That means for every gallon of
beer you want to achieve 2.5 gallons of CO2 dissolved in the beer. So
if you can measure the volume of CO2 you push into the tank, then the
volume you need to put in will depend on the volume of beer in the
tank and the amount of headspace in the tank. It would be a simple
answer if the tank were completely filled with beer, but then you
wouldn't be able to quickly push the volume of CO2 you need into the
beer, as it takes time for the CO2 to dissolve in the beer. So you
are stuck with pushing CO2 into the headspace and waiting for it to
dissolve into the beer. If you can actually measure the volume of CO2
that you push into the tank, then the total volume needed will depend
on the volume of beer, the volume of headspace, and the temperature.
I think I know where you are going with this. You would like to put
all the CO2 you need into the tank at the end of the day so that when
it has equilibrated between the headspace and the beer the next
morning, the beer will have the 2.5 volumes of CO2 dissolved in it. I
love this idea, but as you said, you are limited to 15 psi of
pressure, which precludes you from putting enough CO2 into the
headspace to fully carbonate the beer, assuming most of the tank is
filled with beer rather than headspace. I haven't done the math, but
I think you could do this with a tank that has much more headspace.
The final pressure at equilibrium at 34 degrees F will be about 14.7
psi using the calculator I made for you for your tank (depending on
the volume of beer you put in the tank), so I think that means the
volume of CO2 you would need to put in (after purging the headspace)
is on the order of 14.7 x the volume of the headspace plus 2.5 times
the volume of the beer. For example (not your specific tank), for a
tank of 1000 gallons of beer and 100 gallons of headspace that would
be (100 gal * 14.7) + (1000 gal * 2.5) = 3970 gallons (15,026 liters)
of CO2. That much volume of CO2 confined to the head space initially
would produce a pressure of 39.7 psi if my reasoning and math are
correct. That pressure would gradually drop until equilibrium is
achieved at 14.7 psi at 34 degrees F and your beer would have 2.5
volumes of CO2 in it.
I'm sure many will correct me if I've missed something.
Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:01:10 -0500
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Carbonation
I think you probably mean you want 2.5 volumes of CO2 as that's a sort
of nominal number but it depends on the style - Irish stouts, for
example, should be closer to 1.2 volumes and wheat beers 3 or more. If
you really do mean atmospheres then it is a simple matter of
subtracting 1, multiplying by 14.7 (i.e. (2.5 - 1)*14.7 = 22.05),
setting your CO2 regulator to that value and either waiting or
shaking. When everything equilibrates the partial pressure of CO2 in
the beer will be 2.5 atmospheres absolute (1.5 gauge). The amount of
CO2 dissolved under these conditions will depend on the temperature.
The formula V=3.2694 + .076221*P - 0.042274*T gives the number of
volumes (as released to the atmosphere at sea level on a standard day)
dissolved as a function of the gauge pressure (in psi) and Fahrenheit
temperature. V = 3.4821 + 0.14562*P - 0.07437*T - 6.6194e-05 *P*P -
0.0012952*P*T + 0.00053484*T*T gives a more accurate result but given
the accuracy of most CO2 gauges it probably isn't necessary to do the
extra math. Of course, if you put it in a spreadsheet, the spreadsheet
does the math, not you, and you might as well have the better result.
These formulas represent fits to the ASBC table (from the MOAs) and
you can, of course, also consult those (there's a copy attached to my
cooler door). The approximations are valid from 32 to 60F and 5 to 30
psig.
In the more usual approach the brewer would decide that he wants, e.g.
2.5 volumes and wants to serve the beer at say 40 F. He then goes to
the ASBC table or plugs numbers into the formula until he finds the
pressure (about 12 psig) that gives 2.5 volumes at 40 F. To illustrate
a little further suppose this same brewer plans to lager/condition
this beer at 34 F. He will then want to know what pressure to set for
2.5 volumes at the lower temperature. The tables or formula show this
to be 9 psig so his plan would be to put it in ruh storage at 34 with
the regulator set to 9 and then when he moves it to his serving fridge
at 40F raise the pressure to 12.
A.J.
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:39:44 -0500
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: German Brewing between 1850 and 1900
Last year, when browsing Google Books I came across a number of old
German books that contained a surprisingly detailed description of the
brewing process and I was fascinated reading about how they brewed
beer in the latter half of the 19th century and what they knew about
it and what they didn't. Earlier that year I also visited Germany and
took a number of pictures in two brewing museums in Bavaria.
I then realized that a commented translation of excerpts from one of
the books augmented with these pictures and various diagrams and
tables from other book would make a great article for braukaiser.com.
After working on it for a few weeks I'm finally done:
German Brewing between 1850 and 1900
* Part I: Malting and Wort Production [1]
* Part II: Fermentation and Beer [2]
Grab a beer and get ready to learn about brewing back then, get amused
by what they didn't know and how much different these beers must have
been (especially when they had cats in the malthouse).
Kai
Links (remove the line breaks in the links. HBD doesn't like lines
longer than 80 characters):
- ------
[1]
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?
title=German_Brewing_between_1850_and_1900_:_Malting_and_Wort_Production
[2]
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?
title=German_Brewing_between_1850_and_1900:_Fermentation_and_Beer
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #5519, 03/05/09
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